Hugh and Sophie get Gritty!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello. This is the best intro to a Zoom meeting I've had in, like, a long time. What's new with you? [00:00:09] Speaker B: Well, it's been kind of a whirlwind of a year. It's really fun. A lot of it is documented on the podcast. [00:00:15] Speaker C: Hugh. We didn't give him the same. We should have given him the same. Here you go, Hugh. A little walk in music for you, buddy. [00:00:22] Speaker D: Awesome. Hey, good to. Good to see you. [00:00:28] Speaker C: She's got some good tunes, I'll tell you what. A huge fan, but she's got some good music playing that, buddy. [00:00:37] Speaker D: Yeah, likewise, likewise. Really good to see you. I've had some great conversations with sky recently, but don't think I've talked with you, Kevin, since Beer City. [00:00:46] Speaker C: I think I know. Honestly, Beer City Open are like three of my favorite words. [00:00:50] Speaker D: Yeah. Top tier. Top tier. [00:00:53] Speaker C: There is nobody you talk to in pickleball that doesn't know what Beer City Open means. Of course, not a lot of them haven't experienced it, but they. But they've all been like, yes, I've heard. [00:01:02] Speaker D: Right. And I didn't sign up in the first 30 seconds. [00:01:05] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. Or this year with the draw. Right. This year we had to get lucky, I think. [00:01:09] Speaker D: Right. [00:01:10] Speaker C: You know, this isn't part of the podcast necessarily, but as a vendor, did you get automatic in. [00:01:15] Speaker D: We got a. I think five, like, pre registration. [00:01:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:21] Speaker D: Options. [00:01:22] Speaker C: So negotiate for six next year, please. [00:01:25] Speaker D: Yeah, we always try to get as many as possible. [00:01:31] Speaker C: I always insert myself. That's how I do it. [00:01:33] Speaker A: They're highly coveted, aren't they? I don't know. I don't know if they would love us sharing that. [00:01:38] Speaker C: So I think Andrea actually published it when she was. Yeah, I think that was part of her. Her pitch, responses, and honestly, it works. [00:01:47] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. [00:01:48] Speaker A: It's a big. It's a big asset. [00:01:50] Speaker C: Yeah, it is. Well, we're super excited to have you. We. Last week's podcast was Mr. Zane Navratil. [00:02:01] Speaker B: It's actually a hit today. [00:02:02] Speaker C: No, we don't say that because this comes out next week. [00:02:05] Speaker B: Oh, shoot. [00:02:05] Speaker C: Now I gotta delete that. [00:02:06] Speaker B: Okay. You didn't tell me you were recording. I thought we were still, like, just having a conversation. [00:02:11] Speaker C: We always. I always hit record at the very beginning, so if there's a usable material, we can use it. These guys have a hard stop in 45, 55 minutes. We'll make sure you'll easily be out of here. Don't worry. [00:02:20] Speaker B: Yep. [00:02:20] Speaker C: We're pros. [00:02:22] Speaker D: Yeah. No, I've. I listened to your very first episode, which was awesome. [00:02:27] Speaker C: Oh, we've been to Helen back. [00:02:29] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. Talking about the cruise ship, the. How you guys into it, how Kevin's going to become the world number one. [00:02:38] Speaker C: I'm still on my way. [00:02:39] Speaker D: Yeah. And I saw that you had 13 hours ago, the one with long haired Zane, which I didn't realize was Zane Navratilt. Is his hair long or. [00:02:52] Speaker C: He's growing it out, but you'll have to listen to the Bible. No, his. He's. Jenny wants him to grow it out. [00:03:02] Speaker B: His wife. [00:03:02] Speaker C: So he's like, okay. She's got. He's. He goes. She has some vision for me. He's like, I'm just not sure if I'm going to be a part of that vision after all. We'll see. But she probably wants to see him with longer hair, so he's been growing it out. [00:03:14] Speaker D: Cool. Cool. [00:03:14] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Let's. Let's walk you guys in. We'll get. We'll get officially started. [00:03:19] Speaker B: And let's do it. [00:03:20] Speaker C: Sky. I'm so excited because we have some really cool people and I don't think we've said their names yet. So that gives us an opportunity to have more fun. The introductions here in just a minute. Really looking forward to our. Our podcast today and hearing from our friends. Wonderful people up in good old Michigan. And I met them. Well, actually, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go to that story and we'll go to the origin story here in a little while. [00:03:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:44] Speaker C: All right, so let's just get rolling. [00:03:46] Speaker B: Do it. [00:03:58] Speaker C: It's honestly hard for us, guy, to not sing along because it's become our song. [00:04:02] Speaker B: It's become our song. [00:04:03] Speaker C: It wasn't our song. I don't know what even what our song was anymore because that's our song now. [00:04:07] Speaker B: So Zayn was dancing at the end. [00:04:09] Speaker C: He was dancing to those tunes. Well, we alluded on the last podcast a week ago that we would have some special guests this week also. And I actually even mentioned one of their names. [00:04:22] Speaker B: You did? [00:04:23] Speaker C: I did. Because I met her the same day I met Zayn in person. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:29] Speaker C: It was the first day I met her in person. [00:04:31] Speaker B: Is this the origin story? [00:04:32] Speaker C: This is the origin story. Okay, so I'm gonna go ahead and just bring them in. Please introduce them. [00:04:37] Speaker B: So excited. [00:04:38] Speaker C: And then we'll finish with the story and we'll see how much she remembers of it. [00:04:41] Speaker B: All right. [00:04:41] Speaker C: All right. So we got Hugh Davis and the lovely Sophie. Do you go by Sophie Davis now? [00:04:48] Speaker A: No, I have my original last Name. So Sophie Vanden Bosch. [00:04:53] Speaker C: Got it. No worries. Sophie Vanden Bosch. I didn't know because it. I. Who knows these days, right? So if I would ask. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Orders. I'm Sophie Davis. It's a lot easier to spell. [00:05:03] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah. You come from the world of Vandens and Vanders. Every. You just have to say the last part. Are you a Vander or van Den? Like, that's kind of Holland slash, that area of the country. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Yep. Great place. [00:05:14] Speaker C: I've always said if you want to make friends there, just have an ice cream social, so. [00:05:19] Speaker B: Sounds nice. [00:05:20] Speaker C: Works everywhere. It's not really there. All right, so Hugh and Sophie, lovely couple. They own and operate a company called Revelin. Revelin Sports. Is that the official name? [00:05:30] Speaker B: Yep. [00:05:31] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:05:31] Speaker C: Revlin Sports. And so they're here with us today. Hugh, good to see you. [00:05:36] Speaker D: Yeah, likewise. Thanks so much for having us. Super excited to be here. Kevin and sky, great to see you. [00:05:42] Speaker C: Awesome. I met Hugh at the same place I met Sophie. They were a couple at the time already, and. But Sophie, we met. Do you remember where we actually met? Because it wasn't in person. We met online. It wasn't a dating forum. Don't worry. [00:05:55] Speaker B: It was a clubhouse. [00:05:58] Speaker C: It was Clubhouse. Yeah, it was Clubhouse. And I had just met Zayn, and then I was sitting in the stands over there by that championship court or whatever it was by the. By the players tent for the pros. And I hear her talking to somebody and introducing herself, and she's like, yeah, I'm Sophie Vandenbach. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, holy smokes. That's the. That's the chick I've been talking to on Clubhouse. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:06:20] Speaker C: With Mircha. Right? Mircha and a few others. And we were some of the earliest people on Clubhouse that were doing pickleball. We literally had like a pickleball clubhouse club or whatever the heck. Like a room or whatever they called it. I haven't spent any time on Clubhouse pretty much since then, but it got. [00:06:34] Speaker A: Us connected million years ago. [00:06:36] Speaker C: Yeah, it does, doesn't it? But that was 2020. [00:06:39] Speaker D: Wow. [00:06:42] Speaker A: That's why I think about. [00:06:43] Speaker C: So then she's like, you gotta see what we're doing. And she meets me. She introduces me to you. [00:06:47] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:49] Speaker D: Was this at Beer City or was. [00:06:50] Speaker C: It at Cincinnati App? [00:06:52] Speaker D: Cincinnati. [00:06:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Cool. [00:06:55] Speaker C: You know, I don't know how many events you're at these days with your cool device that we'll talk about here in a little bit. But you had it there, right? Yeah, the vibration reduction. Yes, the. It's A fancy name, Hugh. Say it again. [00:07:10] Speaker D: Vibration reduction demonstration. [00:07:13] Speaker B: Nice. What does that do? I haven't seen that. [00:07:15] Speaker C: Oh, it's cool. Tell them all about it, Hugh. [00:07:17] Speaker D: So one of the benefits of our paddles are, and our natural fibers, our Bioflex material, is that it reduces vibration, easing shock into your arm, your elbow, reducing noise a little bit. And so we had a cool contraption that compared bioflex, our material, carbon fiber and fiberglass, the two other common materials used in pickleball paddles. And essentially kind of two, three long strands of this material, and it kind of plucked them like a ruler off the end of a table, like you might have done in elementary school, making that funny noise when it's vibrating. And it demonstrated how quickly our Bioflex material stopped the vibrations, whereas the fiberglass and carbon fiber continued to vibrate for 3, 4, 5, 10 times longer than our material. So just a nice, simple way to see. Wow. This material mutes vibration very quickly, very effectively compared to some other materials used in pickleball paddles. [00:08:22] Speaker B: That's cool. So for someone who has experienced tennis elbow playing pickleball, I'm wondering how that will affect that. That's pretty cool. [00:08:31] Speaker C: Do you have any stats on how it's affected people with tennis elbow? [00:08:34] Speaker D: Yeah. So we're. We're working on some true white, paid white papers and research to prove this. Right now we have a lot of anecdotal evidence of our customers explaining that when they switched to our paddles, especially our Bioflex paddles, like our Revo series right now, that their tennis elbow was significantly reduced or. Or that they could train longer, play harder without any pain flaring up. So a lot of really strong anecdotal evidence, some great research out there in the material science world around this, and we want to really prove in the pickleball paddle, with hard evidence, that this is all true and that these assumptions are in fact, validated in a controlled study. [00:09:24] Speaker B: That's awesome. [00:09:25] Speaker C: Sophie, I want to know, do you love the geeky part about this guy, or is there something else that attracted you to him? Because if you love the geeky part, you get to hear this over and over again, don't you? [00:09:35] Speaker A: Hugh is the kind of person that walks into a room and starts examining any kind of composite or material, and he can. He has such a deep knowledge or a deep desire to understand things. And, you know, when you're on a hike and you're trying to get home before dark, it's like, come on, stop looking at that bark. But usually I really really appreciate it. And I think it's added a lot of value to Revlon. He is so deeply passionate, and when he has a vision like watch out, he's going to figure out a way to make it work. So I think his deep care to understand things coupled with his. His actual ability to take action is really a super, super cool aspect. One of many from a business level. That's definitely what attracted to me. On a personal level, there's a lot more that goes into it, but it just speaks to how his heart is. And it's all just so genuine and creative. [00:10:32] Speaker C: That's super cool. [00:10:33] Speaker B: I love that. [00:10:34] Speaker C: Let's go back to May 2020 again. This is where I meet you in person. Obviously we'd met before on Clubhouse, but it wasn't that long before, maybe just a couple months before. Where were you guys in the process of your company having been launched or launching your company or give us some insight into the journey over the last four years from that standpoint of. Because I think that that was a fairly new invention you put on the table at that point in time. Right? [00:11:00] Speaker D: Yeah. So if I'm remembering correctly, this was about four years ago. We had just launched our first paddle and we were. We were operating reveling out of my parents basement and garage over here in Holland, Michigan. That's where we were for the six years of R&D and two first years of actual operating a business. So we had just launched our first paddle called the Equinox. Very, very lean, very bootstrapped, and had invented this little machine. My sister had built it, who's now our chief engineer. [00:11:39] Speaker C: Greta. [00:11:40] Speaker D: Yeah, Greta. Incredible. So I had the idea, Greta had the execution. Really good team. Over and over we've shown, yes, we invented this little thing just to this machine, just to put some real context into something that we were starting to see and hear and that we believed in as a real benefit of this material. So very new. We were doing this little tour, me and Sophie, of any tournament we could go to. And I think Delray beach was our very first one. A few months before that, then Cincinnati, then Indianapolis, then Chicago. So we did this little tour to kick off Reveland Sports and really try to meet a lot of players, get a lot of paddles in people's hands. And we brought around that device as a marketing demonstration. So, yeah, that was probably a few months after we had sold our first paddle. [00:12:34] Speaker C: Okay, cool. You know, I loved it because how many people did I bring by your booth to try out your paddles? Right. Whether it was Scentsy or indie? I was like, come on, you gotta try this paddle. Come on, you gotta try this paddle. I fell in love with it right away. They created a discount code called Kevin. [00:12:47] Speaker B: I know. [00:12:48] Speaker C: That was the. Yeah, so it's. We still. We still post that on our sites, but. [00:12:53] Speaker A: Kevin, I have a pop quiz question for you. [00:12:55] Speaker C: Yeah, hit me. [00:12:56] Speaker B: This is. [00:12:57] Speaker A: This is Lore. And do you remember. Do you remember what the base of that device was? [00:13:03] Speaker C: Oh, my. I can picture, but I can't. I couldn't give you any kind of structural analysis. Like you could. Was it composite, you know, whatever? [00:13:13] Speaker A: No, no. It's something anyone would recognize. I believe that we made the device out of an old dresser drawer. Is that correct, Hugh? [00:13:21] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:13:25] Speaker A: That just speaks to, like, we were just so gritty, grinding it out and. And we've come a very long way since then, but we were just super passionate about. About accomplishing this and doing it with whatever we had on hand since then. We've come. Come a long ways, but we've always been gritty and just, you know, finding a way to leverage our resources. [00:13:48] Speaker C: I can't believe it. No, I would. I mean, now that you say it, I can picture it. Did you. Was it a small. It was a small one. It wasn't that big. Yeah. Okay. [00:13:55] Speaker D: Yeah, maybe a foot. [00:13:57] Speaker B: I love that. [00:13:59] Speaker C: Wow, that's really cool. I just remember at Cincinnati, Sophie, you were like, you got to hit this paddle. So I grabbed my partner, Jessica, who, you know, the two of us went out on the court. [00:14:07] Speaker B: Very big revlin. [00:14:08] Speaker C: Yeah, just went on the courts and started hitting it. And I know you made a few sales that day, so. We were. We were some of them. [00:14:15] Speaker B: I think she still has her original paddle. [00:14:17] Speaker C: I think her original one maybe at this point has seen better days. [00:14:22] Speaker A: Retired. [00:14:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:23] Speaker D: Four years ago. [00:14:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:25] Speaker B: She is a smasher. Yeah. [00:14:27] Speaker C: Well, let's. Let's jump forward four years. What, like, what have kind of been the. The core, coolest, maybe milestones other than obviously the obvious, you guys getting married. Which is awesome. Congrats again on that. But what have been some of, like the big milestones as you've launched this business that maybe other aspiring entrepreneurs can. Can either sympathize or recognize or maybe look forward to. [00:14:49] Speaker D: I think the first couple things that pop into my head are one, it felt very like we were a real business when we moved out of my parents garage and basement into our own little facility. We're renting it. We don't own it. But to control a whole space and be able to make it our own and get out of my parents hair. They were incredibly gracious, so grateful for them and all the sacrifices they made for us. But to have our own space, that happened about two years ago now to earn the right to do that, to have you know, the sales, the volume, the need for R D space and assembly space to, to and the team to support that was a huge accomplishment. So that, that space two years ago and now just recently, about two months ago, we signed a lease on a second space strictly for R D and manufacturing. So now we got a cool retail and assembly space and our R and D innovation lab, nicknamed the garage, about 10 minutes away, that's you know, over a thousand square feet of just R and D space to make all sorts of new paddles, testing, you know, slow motion camera impact testing presses to make our own materials from scrap. So really elevating that R and D game, that manufacturing capability. So those have been two really big milestones is just the space to conduct the research and inventory needed for a physical product company. So really excited about that. You know, our headquarters has this vibe that's just awesome with customers coming in and our team's there a few days a week and when the team's in there, you know, the energy is just flowing. We've got a mini fridge with soft drinks and maybe a couple beers in there. [00:16:54] Speaker C: So it's other softer drinks. [00:16:57] Speaker D: Yeah, right. It's a, it's a ton of fun. So that's a huge milestone. And one other I want to mention is just the team that we've, we've built and are continuing to build. You know, it started with me and Sophie and Greta as sort of the three co founders. Greta is my, my sister and that was the team for about two years. But then to earn the right through growing the business and through some investment capital and accelerators that we went through to have a really experienced CEO and now a Chief Growth Officer with 25 years of experience building and growing companies. An assembly team that's you know, that's part time. So I'm not building paddles much anymore. Building this top notch team of, you know, marketing and sales experts and R and D intern and production techs and a great bookkeeper. So just the team we've assembled and grown since then, I think we have six full time and four part time employees which is a long way to come. Since two years ago when it was 3.2full time and a part time. Greta. [00:18:08] Speaker C: Yeah, part time Greta. That could be a good nickname for her. I mean she would part Time. Greta. She's the sweetest, by the way. You, I think. Did you meet her? [00:18:19] Speaker B: I have not. [00:18:20] Speaker C: Okay. No. She's just like these two people. She's wonderful people. [00:18:22] Speaker B: I think I met Sophie at a pro tournament. [00:18:27] Speaker C: You met her Beer City Open, for sure. [00:18:28] Speaker B: Well, definitely Beer City. But before that, briefly. I came to watch you. That was the tournament. [00:18:33] Speaker C: Probably Indy. [00:18:34] Speaker B: It was indie. [00:18:34] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I don't think Q, you came to Indy, right? I think just Sophie came. [00:18:39] Speaker D: Yeah, there was one or two that just Sophie went to, maybe with Jeff. [00:18:43] Speaker C: Oh. In fact, Sophie came to the CSW tournament one year. That's probably where you met her. [00:18:47] Speaker B: No, this was outside. So this is an Indy. Listen. Yep. [00:18:51] Speaker C: No, so we got you. I remember we got you to that tournament and now you guys are so popular, I can't get you to come to my tournaments anymore. [00:18:57] Speaker B: It's crazy. Well, I want to hear what Sophie. What Hurley and Marks are. [00:19:01] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, please. [00:19:02] Speaker A: Good question. Part of the question that you asked, I kind of empathized with, of what can people expect for a journey like this? And I think there's so many highs and lows. The thing that I always come back to though is, you know, just the other day I was working out of HQ and a gentleman was experiencing, you know, he had a chronic illness and was finding it tougher to play on the court. And so we were able to double wrap a handle, get him a, like, longer paddle because of some mobility issues and. And you know, just the joy on his face. That's really what. What keeps me coming back to. For the long nights and the early mornings through everything and the bad days. Right. You keep coming back to the people who, you know, I know, Kevin, you're such a believer in how pickleball can transform lives. And so, like, there have been hard times in the business. I think that our grit has been one of our most defining, defining features. Just the ability to survive through. Right. We, I think we are unique because we do so much of our own R and D and we make all of our, like, paddles here in the States. And so through that, we've learned a lot and we've had some challenges when you're trying to do something completely different that nobody else has ever done before. There have been times where we have a ton of pre orders and we thought we would have stuff ready on this day. And I have to send that email and I'm like cringing inside saying, I'm so sorry. It's delayed like a hurricane literally hit one of Our manufacturing partners, like, you know, so that's so disappointing when, you know, there are those people out there who. It will genuinely help them have a more enjoyable time on the court, feel more confident. That's ultimately so. So when you're not able to deliver for those people, that. That's really hard. But. But the moments that you are is. It's really what. What keeps me going through this. [00:20:57] Speaker C: Love it. Sustainability. The whole ecological aspect is really a big part of your business. And I mean, like, I would not even ask the question of, do you ever see yourself making a paddle that's not ecologically, you know, whatever. But what you haven't talked yet about your latest, which is. I don't. I want to call it the Hot Lava. I want to call it the Hot Lava Paddle. That's like the name I have in my head for that paddle. [00:21:19] Speaker A: Cerevo Pro. [00:21:19] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it's the Cerebro Pro. [00:21:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:23] Speaker B: In it. [00:21:23] Speaker C: Tell. Tell us what led to that discovery, Hugh or Sophie, as to why you would throw lava on the face of a paddle. [00:21:32] Speaker D: Yeah, love the question. It started with the customer needs. As we launched the Equinox and then the Revo series with our Bioflex and our improved Bioflex material, we had a lot of positive feedback. But as the sport was maturing and as players were getting better and pushing the limits of paddles and new technology was coming out, there was a desire for more spin, more power paddles that were, you know, were lasting longer. And so that really, in my mind, how do we achieve those benefits for these customers and for our, you know, top advanced players that are really pushing the limits of their paddles? And so through tons of research, through many, many prototypes, we discovered a new set of materials and layered them in a very specific way that we have now called and patented as our Lava Flex material. And it's based on essentially, you take a volcanic rock, you melt it down, you purify it, and then you turn it into a fiber, sort of like carbon fiber, fiberglass, but it comes from the earth. It's much less energy intensive. It can be fully recycled. You could remelt it and turn it into new fiber so it is recyclable. And this Lava Flex material gives these benefits of super high strength. We have this raw Lava flex surface on it that gives you tons of spin, top tier spin. And the Bioflex is very vibration dampening, kind of soft, lends itself towards control. The Lava Flex has this springy kind of explosive nature. You know, no pun intended, but like the Explosion of volcano and gives you that, that power, gives you that spin, gives you that high strength and long lasting performance. And so this was our second kind of material innovation, our second patent around Lavaflex. So really excited about this, this product, this material platform and both of these materials have many, many variants that will continue to be, you know, better and better for players performance and better and better for the planet as well. So performance is really first in all of our innovations. And what we're thinking about is how can we meet the needs of a specific player group in the Revo Pro. And the Lava Flex was targeted at that top kind of high performance player, but baked into that ethos and baked into what we're also thinking about is how can we also make these step by step better for the environment because they're not mutually exclusive. But first and foremost comes the player experience, comes the performance, comes the durability. That's really, that's really what's leading each research initiative. [00:24:31] Speaker C: Sure. Is it your Bioflex was a weave, correct? [00:24:35] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:24:35] Speaker C: Is the Lava Flex a weave also then? [00:24:37] Speaker D: Because, yeah, there's, there's various layers, four layers on each side of the paddle woven in slightly different ways. But yeah, it's a woven composite material. [00:24:49] Speaker C: I mean, and that's what they're doing with T700, right? It's more of their way. They're, they're woven and then you've got the grit that's like sand that's been adhered to the paddle. And those are the worst ones because that comes off so fast. The weave is really, seems to be very sustainable in terms of the grit factor. [00:25:07] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. And you can make, you know, unidirectional, which doesn't have a weave if we wanted to get technical. But you can weave it, you can make it unidirectional, layer it in different orientations. But the woven gives you a little bit more toughness and durability generally. [00:25:25] Speaker C: I don't want you to give away anything that would be a trade secret, but is there an angle at which the weave achieves the highest. You know what I'm saying? Right. [00:25:34] Speaker B: You're going deep here. [00:25:35] Speaker C: Oh, guess. Because he was good at this stuff and he knows. If anyone knows, he knows. And I want to hear like this cool stuff. [00:25:40] Speaker B: Don't reveal anything. [00:25:41] Speaker C: He won't. [00:25:42] Speaker D: Yeah. I love the question, but it's a. [00:25:46] Speaker C: Super secret sauce formula. [00:25:48] Speaker D: The answer is yes. And it's a, it's a really exciting kind of space in the material science world today. Most paddles have kind of a 0. 90. [00:25:59] Speaker C: Yep. There's no way that's the best I can tell you right now. [00:26:03] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:26:03] Speaker C: And I'm going to guess what yours is, but I have an idea. [00:26:05] Speaker D: Yeah. So. So, you know, that's where I think 99, if not all paddles, are primarily.01 to two, maybe three layers. And I think, you know, there's opportunity there, but I'll leave it at that for now. [00:26:21] Speaker C: Yeah. To me, that only gets half of the fibers working in your favor at any given point in time. [00:26:27] Speaker D: Yeah, right. [00:26:28] Speaker C: That's how I think about it. And so I know that there's got to be a special angle and that we can stop right there. [00:26:33] Speaker B: I want to. I want to talk to Sophie about marketing, because this is. This is where I love. First of all, your website, revoltsports.com is fantastic. It is easy to use. It's fun. It definitely helps you figure out. You even have a quiz to figure out what paddle would work best for you. I also love that you have beginner packs. You have a four pack. Because a lot of times when people start playing pickleball, they're coming in as a group with their. With their peeps. But I have to ask, when you did the ad, which I have seen on Facebook, where you fall into the. [00:27:06] Speaker C: Door, I love that ad. [00:27:07] Speaker B: I kept. Every time I see it, I'm like, did she mean to do that? Because that looked like that hurt. So it definitely catches people's attention, and I want to hear the story behind it. [00:27:19] Speaker A: So I actually, I intercepted our COO who was about to ship out a ton of paddles, and I said, rod, can I hold, you know, all of the things that you're going to ship, all these boxes, boxes. So I am holding the boxes, and I said, okay, you know, just for some visual interest, for a hook, I'm going to push open the door and then let people know about our Black Friday Cyber Monday sale. I have my arms full of boxes, and our door is a little sticky because it's freezing. So I'm like, you know, trying to push out the door with my elbow, and suddenly the door opens. I am on the ground, and I power through. I walked away with a bruise on my knee and thought, hey, you know what? This is what it's about. This is real. And I think people just want authenticity. And so a little embarrassing that you saw it, but I knew that it would probably come across as, oops, sorry, just dropped my phone. [00:28:13] Speaker C: Trying to recreate it right there in the studio. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, like, stuff happens. We're not perfect people. We're doing our best. And that's. That's exactly the message that I think wanted to send there. [00:28:24] Speaker C: Yeah, you're doing awesome. And I've seen that ad, I bet, 20 or 30 times. [00:28:29] Speaker B: Well, we're definitely on your. So people like everything. [00:28:32] Speaker C: People know that you fall through the door. [00:28:33] Speaker B: Yeah. You definitely put some skin in that game for that. For that ad. And, you know, and sometimes that is the best because it's the most authentic. It gets people's attention. And I. I loved it. I loved every minute of it. So. [00:28:48] Speaker C: Yeah, me too. People do crave authenticity. [00:28:51] Speaker A: There's a lot of noise in the space right now. There's a lot of big brands out there, and. And so we have to really drill into what makes us unique. And so even if it's those slightly messy, imperfect moments, I think everyone can relate to that. I'm not going to go out there and pretend to be Ben Johns. I'm going to show you how I fall. Trying to get your paddles out the door into your hands as quickly as possible. So I think that's what it comes down to is just really showing who we are and why we're doing it, because we care so deeply. And. And I think that's kind of unique. [00:29:23] Speaker B: Well, I think the other thing that makes you guys unique is that you actually are pickleball players. So a lot of times, you know, pickleball paddles will have a pro or they'll have a. An R and D consultant. Right. Which you probably also have. But at the same time, you are on the courts. When we saw you play at Beer City, not only were you playing very competitively and hard, but you also were amazing partners. I kept. I even mentioned to Kevin, like, they are such good partners for each other. So I can imagine how that translates off the core into your business and back and forth back onto the core, because there's a mutual respect. You know each other's strengths and weaknesses, and you are able to back each other up. [00:30:10] Speaker C: Yeah. These are two of the most genuine, wonderful people you're going to meet. Salt of the earth, Hugh and Sophie. [00:30:17] Speaker D: Thank you. Yeah, I love playing with Sophie. It's taken us a little bit, a few turn. [00:30:22] Speaker A: Wait, no, be honest. [00:30:25] Speaker C: That's on recording. That's unrecorded. We got it. [00:30:29] Speaker D: No, truly, like, it's a lot of fun. I. It's taken, I think, both of us some time to find how. How we play and synergize together and, you know, and. And just build each other up and stay positive. But like some of these most recent tournaments, I'm, you know, I'm smiling the whole time and wouldn't want to be playing with anyone else. [00:30:52] Speaker C: So that's. That's me. Couples that play, I think, have an extra level of potential struggle, but relative than just, like, partners that play. Well, sure, but there's nobody I'd rather play with than my wife. I mean. [00:31:05] Speaker B: I mean, like, if you didn't do the laundry that day or whatever. [00:31:08] Speaker D: Right, right. [00:31:09] Speaker C: You walk onto the court with extra stress. [00:31:11] Speaker B: But, I mean, if you use that to your advantage, if you take it out on the other people, then it's fine if you. [00:31:17] Speaker C: Has been sent to the garage. [00:31:20] Speaker D: Right, Right. [00:31:21] Speaker C: We know he hops in his car and heads out. He's got a new garage he can go to, so he. He doesn't mind that. Probably too much R D action. [00:31:29] Speaker A: No, I think. I think. I think we're really good at working through things together. We often come from different perspectives, but I think what makes us work on and off the court is that we're both really receptive because we have so much mutual respect and trust. I think you hit the nail on the head there, Sky. And. And I think that's what it's about in. In business, too. Right? Is. Is listening, hearing out, and then just ultimately making that call. And I think we kind of. Because we know each other so well, it's really helpful to. To kind of ultimately succeeding. Even though we didn't do that well in Beer City, you know, we go into it to have fun. I will say, though, this is the part I want on the record. I did ask you to be my partner. And he said, I don't know. Let me ask this wonderful, wonderful person named Tina who is the best. I love her to death. And she and him have had great success, but he's like, let me see if Tina can play first. So I wasn't his first choice, but ultimately we did have a great time. [00:32:28] Speaker B: I can totally relate, girl. I know. Yeah, I'm his first choice now, but it wasn't always the case. Oh, I love you guys so much. [00:32:37] Speaker C: I love that you think you're my first choice. [00:32:39] Speaker B: Now you've told me that. What are you saying to other people? Oh, that's so funny. Well, this episode is going to come out shortly before Christmas, and so I'm not sure what your deadlines are for shipping. If people are interested in buying, they can always use the code Kevin, when they visit your site. But maybe there's. I don't know if you have gift card or gift certificate options as well. But this is. [00:33:06] Speaker C: Yeah, this is your chance. You are. [00:33:07] Speaker B: This is your chance. [00:33:08] Speaker C: Free. Free promo. Hit it. [00:33:09] Speaker B: Yeah, do it. We have at least Christmas. [00:33:11] Speaker C: We have at least nine listeners now. [00:33:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:13] Speaker C: We joke. You heard. You heard our first pod, Hugh. But if you listen to our podcasts, along the way, we have a running joke about if people tell us they listen to our podcast and they tell us, I'm the ninth listener now they have to tell us they're the tenth listener. And as soon as they do that, we keep adding. Adding a number to it. But we do have several thousand listens at this point. [00:33:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:33] Speaker C: So at least. At least those nine people are listening a whole lot. One or the other. I don't know. [00:33:37] Speaker B: Consistently listening. [00:33:38] Speaker C: So free. Yeah. Free. Guilt free. Free opportunity to promote anything you want here. What do you got, Kevin? [00:33:46] Speaker A: You're in the grind. You know, I just want to say that, like, you're in the grind. You got to stick it out. And then you come up with the paddle or the episode, and then you. It's not a linear path to success. Right. It's in leaps and bounds. And so stick it out. That's. That's. I can't help but encourage you there, even though I know you're joking. [00:34:05] Speaker C: That's very kind. I want to know what your. [00:34:07] Speaker A: Free. [00:34:07] Speaker C: What your. Your chance. Free commercial for you guys. [00:34:10] Speaker B: Like, what do you got? [00:34:11] Speaker C: Let's hear it. [00:34:12] Speaker B: The social pack. [00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:14] Speaker C: Big Christmas sale. That's different than your Black Friday sale. [00:34:18] Speaker A: We don't do discounts often because we make things in the USA and we, we, you know, approach it to be really fair with our pricing. That's our goal is to. Is to be really fair about it. So we are not doing any additional discounts for the holiday season. However, we are running our gift packs. So that's a starter set where you save, I believe it's 30% on two paddles, two of our Revo series, a bag and three balls. So that's honestly been our bestseller, people. If you want to go out with your significant other and go hit around, this is everything you need to get started. And one other little thing I will mention is that we are launching a new paddle on the 16th, so we have a pretty limited run. It is in addition to our Revo Pro series. It is the Revo Pro Pure LH Hybrid. And LH stands for Long Handle. So it's a 5 1/2 inch handle with a more standard face. I played with it Monday. I Played with it yesterday and I love it. I. My hands are so fast. Everyone was staring at me when I was serving. They're like, what is different right now? Because I was getting so much whip on that paddle. I'm really, really excited about it and I think it serves a huge section of the market really well. [00:35:39] Speaker C: And then do you have a tui. You like to hit that two handed backhand? [00:35:42] Speaker A: Working on it. So this makes it a lot easier. Yep. [00:35:45] Speaker C: Hugh, do you have the two handed back end? [00:35:47] Speaker D: Yeah, I've been working on it for like two years and finally kind of feeling comfortable with it. And it's natural. I'm not overthinking every two handed backhand. Still tons of work. Nowhere near where I would like it to be. But the. The Revo Pro long handle as we're kind of nicknaming it. Lh just awesome in that sense. I. The resets, the quick hands and that two hander just feels so good on it. [00:36:18] Speaker A: Also, our last day to shop. Okay, so if you want to shop from Revlon Sports, support a small business this holiday season with a great quality guarantee and backing, then you should order from our website by December 20th. We're also on Amazon, so if you're a little bit more last minute, feel free to check stuff out there. We have free exchanges or returns for 30 days because we genuinely want to make sure that you love the paddle that ends up in your hands. You can shop for gifts guilt free. We really would appreciate if you check us out, take the quiz online, see what's new and give us a shot. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Love it. [00:36:56] Speaker C: Yeah, well, you know, I love your paddles. I hit that volcanic surfaced one when I was in Beer City and I got a heck ton of spin out of it. It was pretty nice. [00:37:06] Speaker D: Cool. [00:37:07] Speaker B: Well, and also it looks like you can interchange the paddles on these sets. They you aren't just buying one. So that's pretty cool. That's unique. [00:37:15] Speaker C: The long handle Revo Pro. So it's got the. It's got the lava based right surface. I want to kind of go back to that for just a second. How much are you seeing in terms of. So obviously the design up front is a recyclable design. How much are you actually seeing on the back end of it being recycled? Like, like do you have a program where people can ship paddles back to you and you'll recycle the those materials or. I actually, I know your business. Okay. But I don't know that part of your business at all. So fill us in on that. [00:37:47] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a great question. So where we're at with our current Lava Flex Bioflex materials, which are our Revo Pro and our Revo paddles, they the whole paddle is not yet fully recyclable. We do, we love, when we get paddles back, there's components of the paddle that we can actually fully recycle, reuse or kind of recycle traditionally. The other piece of the paddle that we can't necessarily recycle, we use for testing, for building out, testing processes and training there. So our current products are not yet fully recyclable. [00:38:30] Speaker C: Right. [00:38:30] Speaker D: They have the potential to be. And that's the steps that we're working towards. And so, you know, it's that journey, it's how do we, with every product launch, take that next step towards making products that are better for players and the planet? And so we're still early in that journey and we hope to get to that point where we have fully circular products and full recyclability or some end of life that is, you know, sustainable and respectful of generations to come. But that's, you know, that's where we are being transparent and truthful. We can't claim our paddles fully recyclable yet. So the fibers are recyclable. There's a lot of pieces that we reuse and recyc, but it's one step at a time. [00:39:17] Speaker A: Good before. Great. [00:39:19] Speaker D: Exactly. [00:39:21] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, I think I have, I've coined multiple times, you guys, as the only legit sustainability company out there in Pickleball. I still think today, I think there's a few people that maybe are kind of trying to do something, but you're really the main ones, aren't you, that are in this space? This is part of ethos. [00:39:42] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some, some compostable balls may be coming out. There's some other accessories that are, that are sustainable that we love to see. But in the paddle world where we're the, we're the main one, from a truly construction and ethos perspective, we plant the tree for every paddle solder. Recycling is fully packed. [00:40:05] Speaker B: I love that. [00:40:06] Speaker D: Fully recycled and recyclable. So it's more than just the paddle, but the paddle is a big part and that's a big part of that footprint. So. [00:40:16] Speaker A: And I do think that we super. [00:40:18] Speaker C: Proud of you guys. [00:40:19] Speaker A: More alone in like the performance category. And I do want to say that we're so grateful for everyone else who is taking into consideration the impact that manufacturing products and adding more to the world. You know that they're considering that. And so we are not afraid of competition in this space. We welcome it. And you know, part of our future plans are to support others doing similar things because we've, we've personally grinded through to get this hard won knowledge. So we're not, we're not trying to be exclusionary in this space. [00:40:55] Speaker C: Well, you would think if you, if you cared about right. The Earth and then also wanted to be the exclusive only priest people, you know, doing something about it, that those really wouldn't make any sense together. So I love that you say that. So thanks for that. Yeah, go ahead Hugh, please. [00:41:12] Speaker D: I was just going to add to Sophie's point. We're looking at licensing and joint development in other sports and other industries and possibly even in pickleball to bring our technology to the world in a very collaborative way with other brands inside and outside of pickleball. So that's a long term kind of vision of ours, but again helping, helping the world transition to a more sustainable way to do things. [00:41:41] Speaker A: And actually we've been recognized and gotten some really, really impressive awards that aren't as impressive to me, perhaps because I don't know this space. But Hugh, being a material science nerd, do you want to mention this quickly? [00:41:54] Speaker D: Yeah. A couple of our products were recognized at CAMEX and JACK World as innovation finalists. These two events are the two largest material science composite material trade shows in the world. One happens in the United States, camex, the other happens in Paris, France and internationally recognized as sort of the Material Science Expo. And this year at Camex, next year 2025 Jack World, one of our products, not yet launched, can't say much about it yet, was recognized not only for the innov and performance around vibration reduction, impact resistance, field touch, but also sustainability. So really excited about that and kind of gives us some confidence that our material science is, you know, truly unique and making great pickleball paddles. But can, can help the other industries as well. [00:42:56] Speaker A: And just to put that in context, we were up against for example Airbus, like literally like that's the level of it was not like little startups, it was multi billion dollar conglomerates. So I just, I'm so proud of our team for, for what they're doing and it's really cool to get that recognition in the wow. In the material science space. [00:43:17] Speaker C: We can say we knew them. [00:43:18] Speaker B: I know, I'm like so I Remember. [00:43:20] Speaker C: Before the 2025 Paris France episode with Revlon, we knew them. [00:43:25] Speaker B: This is why United States needs to stick with stem. [00:43:27] Speaker C: You Know, I, I gotta go back though. Hugh, did you say fetal touch? I misunderstood something there. You said the vibration, the something and something touch. [00:43:38] Speaker D: Oh, the feel. [00:43:40] Speaker C: And I was like, did he say fetal? I knew he didn't say fetal. [00:43:44] Speaker A: Marketing term. [00:43:45] Speaker C: Right? [00:43:47] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:43:47] Speaker C: Well, Sophie, I'm like, you're right, I don't understand these terms either, so. [00:43:50] Speaker D: Hey, that's so funny. No, I don't know what that would mean, but nothing good. [00:43:57] Speaker C: Yeah. What's. I think we're all good on not having to go any further down that path. Hugh, you mentioned a little bit ago compostable balls. Any more insight and give us into that? [00:44:07] Speaker D: Yeah, so we, we recognize this is a real problem and opportunity in pickleball, especially in the northern states. Up here in Michigan, we might go through, you know, a few balls in, in a single session of play when it's 50 degrees out in the fall or spring. And so seeing these trash cans full of balls has been, you know, a pain point for us. So really excited, you know, about looking at this problem. We're evaluating it. [00:44:39] Speaker A: But no, we don't currently have anything to share on the revl inside about that other than we're excited for a solution here, whether that comes from us or somebody else. Ultimately, we all have experienced this problem and it needs to improve. At the, at this moment, we're looking at the really pollutive materials that are going into equipment and kind of the trend of equipment becoming more and more disposable. You know, we, we've seen some, A lot of brands reduce their warranty timelines from, you know, at one point, lifetime, from the big leaders in our sport then to a year and now I've seen four months. And to us, you know, we want equipment that serves people for. We want to stand by an equipment that serves people for a reasonable amount of time. And so we're looking at how do we increase the durability and performance of products so people will love them for a long time and how do we replace those most pollutive materials with higher performing ones that, that create a lower impact on the earth so it is easier to adopt. Right. [00:45:48] Speaker C: Well, that's awesome. And I would expect that if somebody's out there, is working on it, that how could they not reach out to the leaders in the material world that are getting trophied up in these wonderful places like the US And Paris. So that's very cool. Thanks for your thoughts there. [00:46:04] Speaker D: Would love to, love to be in touch if anyone wants to reach out and see how we can support or work together. Yeah. Love that. Shout out, Kevin. [00:46:14] Speaker C: Yeah. Very cool. Well, I'm proud of you guys. [00:46:16] Speaker B: So proud. [00:46:18] Speaker A: Thank you, Kevin. I think in general, in the pickleball space, we take the concept of a rising tide raises all ships. Right. We don't want to be exclusionary in our ideas or technology as long as we're looking out for our business. Ultimately, we exist to serve players, and so how can we do that in the best way possible? I believe that we don't know everything, and that collaboration can lead to better results for the people we all ultimately serve. And so, ultimately, we want to be collaborative. We want to deliver better products that serve customers, and we're super open to the many different paths you can take to achieve that goal. [00:47:02] Speaker C: Love it. [00:47:02] Speaker B: Nice. [00:47:03] Speaker C: Well, I think this is a perfect probably place to wrap up. I cannot thank you enough, Sophie. I have loved you since day one, Hugh, since the day I met you as well. I think you two are just wonderful people and doing an amazing thing. And if we're ever talking to people that are ahead of the game, these are them, definitely. Right? All right. So we always tell our listeners we're ahead of the game, and so are you. [00:47:33] Speaker D: World. [00:47:35] Speaker A: That's what I'm ahead. I'm ahead of the game. [00:47:38] Speaker D: I'm ahead of the game.