Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: Not as much about telling stories.
[00:00:03] Speaker A: It's the point. Don't be cute.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean. I mean, you're gonna be cute whether you try to or not, because you just are.
Hey, everybody. Kevin Huff here, one of your hosts for the Sweet Loves podcast. I am with the ever lovely sweet love, sky. Hello, Sky. Hello, Skye. Today we have got a lot of content because we found that we really need to do two sessions to deliver our message on running tournaments. And so today is a session, or part one, if you will, and then next week will be part two. We're going to have a total of three different guest speakers as a part of these two part series. And so I just want to cut to the chase real quick, and let's start with tournament hosting and facilities. I kind of want to get into that space with you a little bit, especially since you are a marketing director for a facility that hosts tournaments, and then we'll get into some other stuff later. Does that sound good to you?
[00:01:10] Speaker A: That sounds great.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Awesome. So, as somebody who's been at a facility for a while now that's run multiple large pickleball tournaments, couple years running some of, if not the biggest tournaments in Indiana, what are your quick thoughts on, or suggestions for people who want to run a tournament regarding facilities? What should they be looking for? How far out do they need to be planning? Anything you can think of that would be helpful.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: It can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it. We've thrown together a quick tournament on behalf of Habitat for Humanity. Many years ago, we didn't know what we were doing, and it was successful. We had a great tournament. We had a great event for the players and the spectators, the venue as a community center, which pretty much let us have the run of the place. So it wasn't a huge money maker because we didn't get enough sponsors. The reason that you want to plan ahead is because you want to be able to have time to gather your sponsors and to be able to figure out your budget. So. And those go hand in hand. Choosing a facility can also determine how much you're going to charge for the event and how many sponsors that you want to want to get. So the timing just depends on how much money you want to raise, if it's a fundraising tournament, or how much you want to make, if it is a for profit tournament.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Excellent advice. Do you find that facilities that have tennis courts are generally open to the idea of allowing pickleball to be on those courts? And if so, how are they, you know, accommodating.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, it's really about a sale for them. If they are making. If they're getting court fees for those courts, whether it's a tennis tournament or a pickleball tournament, they're going to be open to the idea.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: What's a typical court fee look like? Are they paying like a per hour rate per court? Are they paying, like some kind of big block rate? What's your insight there?
[00:03:25] Speaker A: It varies by facility. Sometimes it's just a court rate per hour that they're hoping to get. Sometimes if they do lessons or clinics and you are displacing their staff, and their staff can't make that income because you're taking the court, the fees might be different so that they can accommodate the loss of revenue.
So they might charge based on a certain amount of revenue that they want to make.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. I think that's pretty much what I've seen as well, the places I've gone.
What seems to work the best is in terms of accommodating pickleball on tennis courts, is that they tend to say.
The tournament directors tend to say, let's do two pickleball courts on every tennis court. And they usually do, like, painters tape or gaffers. Tape is what I really like to use. It seems to be a little bit more sturdy than painters tape, but it also removes, like, painters tape. Right. Without any residue left behind.
But I'll tell you what, sky, if needed, because of the size of a tennis court, you can absolutely put more than an average of, if you will, two pickleball courts per tennis court. So somebody is really desperate for space. Let's say they've got six tennis courts that they're working with, three side by side, they could get at least four to five pickleball courts on each side of the tennis nets, which means for three tennis courts, which would normally be just six pickleball courts, they could get eight or ten if they really tried. The only problem becomes traffic flow.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Right. And the balls.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Yeah, the balls still aren't too big of a deal, because most pickleball players play on public courts or private courts that are still only, you know, seven to 10ft apart, which is what you would experience there at tournaments where the pickleball courts are only two per tennis court. I mean, you've got, like, a lot of space between pickleball courts, probably 2020, 5ft between pickleball courts. So that's a. That's awesome, don't get me wrong, but I'm just saying if they're in a pinch, one thing that they can look at is not thinking about the tennis lines at all and just saying, okay, here's how much space I have on the, on this side of the nets. How many courts could I really get in?
So. Right, your habitat tournament was what, 125, 150 players somewhere in that range?
[00:05:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that sounds about right.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: It was two days, and you did it on six quarts.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: On six quarts. And we did the brackets on post it paper.
I mean, it was, it was really, it was, it was. We even made the metals to make them out of wood and because of habitat for humanity. So, I mean, there was, we had a pretty low budget, and it brought a lot of visibility. So it wasn't just about the fundraising so much as it also brought visibility because the habitat house that we were building at the time was just around the corner from the, which was fun.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: That was pretty neat. I feel like you even, like, did a quick tour over there or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. In terms of choosing a facility, let's get back to how far out, you know, at your facility. I'm not trying to promote yours necessarily, but if I wanted to run a tournament at your facility yet in 2024, would I have enough time to pull it off, or would it be like, no, Kevin, you probably should have talked to us, you know, months ago.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: I would say, yeah, you'd have time to pull it off. And we. It also just depends on the size and what the, what the dates are. So, again, when you're working with a facility, you're working on their calendar, just like you would have a wedding venue or a concert venue. You. They probably already have scheduled events, and so you work around those.
And so we're currently working on the community in motion tournaments there. And so we're looking at September and October.
Those are smaller tournaments, and so that'll be easy for us to turn around.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: So four to five months out. But it. But that's a tournament that really requires one or two tennis courts, and it only requires them for, you know, half a day. But I think my experience with your facility and others has been, if you want those courts, all of them, for two days, which is kind of a minimum size normal tournament anymore, three days often. Right. You know, Friday afternoon and evening with singles, you're probably looking at, what, twelve months out is a pretty safe bet. Maybe ten months out.
[00:08:08] Speaker A: Yes. So for these larger tournaments, we normally have at least a estimated date a year out. And that way we don't schedule anything. We're also looking at what's already in pickleball brackets, which is the software that I think you mentioned before you're going to mention, that also helps us kind of forecast. And the other thing that we also look at is, is it our busy season? So, like big ball tournaments for us, since we're an indoor facility, are great to have in the summertime because that's a slower time for us, versus if you wanted to do one in January, which would be an extremely busy time for us.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: And then we probably would say no.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Do you have, so just, would someone get a discount in July or pay a premium in January, or do you tend to charge the same, no matter what, they just have to get approved?
[00:09:04] Speaker A: That would be up to the pickleball director. I don't believe they give a discount for summer because it's still the wear and tear facility. It's still the same cleaning fees, it's still the same number of staff, regardless of what time of year it is.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Now, do you guys require, like, waivers and things like that for players to sign before they get in?
[00:09:28] Speaker A: We do.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: Anything else like that we should know about? Well, actually, you also, I know you work closely with the tournament directors on sort of your rules and regulations, right? Like no food and drink on the courts outside of clear water, like non, non flavored water.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: We try. It doesn't always happen. It also depends on if they've hired a food vendor to be in the facility. So we'll say stuff like, don't bring your own coolers, definitely don't bring your own alcohol. We don't allow alcohol on the premises unless it's through a vendor that has the permits.
I know you would think that that wouldn't fit into a tournament, but there are some fun tournaments out there, like Beer City, that have a theme around beer and pickleball. So it really just depends on the tournament. And those are normally stated upfront. I will say not everybody reads that material when they're signing up. And so it does require the tournament directors to police that. And if there's a podcast in which I think you might mention what that is either in this episode or the next episode, we do count on the volunteers that are podcast to be able to police that, too.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Podcasting is a term that we will definitely talk about in the next episode as part two, but it's also very rare. So if we're talking to your typical tournament director out there, or somebody who wants to maybe a tournament director, which is the title that we give somebody who runs a tournament and who ultimately is responsible for the tournament.
They probably wouldn't have pod captains because they wouldn't be familiar with that sort of localized thing that we do here.
Back to alcohol. I want to add to that, I have not seen a pickleball tournament where there wasn't alcohol. So I don't think it's as isolated as you make it sound.
A little more popular than that. But fairness to your point, which I think needs to be reiterated, I'm gonna reiterate it this way. When we bring alcohol into a facility that's not allowed to have alcohol, we are jeopardizing that facility's ability to even be in business. And as pickleball players and the great community that we are, we need to recognize that and honor that. Go to the next bar over and drink, or, you know, I'm sure we can all make it to the parking lot without cracking open a beer.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And you don't want to lose your spot in the tournament because you're causing the facility to break a law, just like you don't want to get injured and get eliminated from your. From the tournament. So it is. It is really just about common courtesy and respecting the rules of whatever facility that you're at and being a good team player.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: Yeah, totally agree.
All right, cool. We've got a friend of mine whose name is Justin. We've already interviewed him. He has run multiple tournaments. We're going to interview Jenny Morgan, who has run the facility that you're at and other facilities in the past and has some insights there as well from a facility standpoint. And we're also going to hopefully interview Shannon, who ran the most recent tournament at your facility.
And it was a huge one. Again, it'll probably be the second largest in Indiana this year, and it has the potential to be the largest. If the other one doesn't hold up to what we expect it to hold up to, those will be some great people to give us extra insight into tournaments, tournament directing, I think maybe just any one or two fun things you want to mention about tournaments. And I'm thinking kind of over here on my side, racking my brain a bit. I think one thing for me really is make it an experience.
Some of the coolest feedback I hear about pickleball tournaments come from former or even current tennis players who say, man, this is not what I expected at all. You know, the tennis tournaments we go to are. They wouldn't say lame by comparison. That's how I translate it.
But they would say they're quiet. They're reserved. There's no community, so to speak. Like, we go in, we play, we leave, and they're like these pickleball tournaments. They're a party. Like all your friends are here, you're hanging out, you're cheering each other on, you're watching all these different courts. It's an absolute blast in the whole community, community thing. So I think as a tournament director, it's important to understand that you want to foster more of that community aspect. That is going to be one of the biggest ways to grow your tournament in future years. Because if you want to run a tournament, I would plan on doing it, and you probably already are on an annual basis, because that's how they grow and that's how they get popular, and that's how you begin to make the kind of money you want to make, whether it's for your nonprofit or your for profit. That would be my big thing for potential tournament directors to walk away with or existing tournament directors to walk away with from this conversation, which is make it an incredible experience for the people coming to the tournament. What about you?
[00:14:30] Speaker A: I would second that, and I would extend that to their volunteers. So if you're going to do a tournament, whether it's for nonprofit or a for profit, you're probably going to rely on some volunteers, and you want it to be a fun experience for them to make sure that your volunteers match the role that they're going to be fulfilling. If they're timid, you don't want them to be in charge of a court.
You don't want them at check in station or a score station. You want them to be where they can feel that they can use their.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Skillset, like handing out t shirts or.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: T shirts, making people have water, selling a raffle, whatever it is that you're doing at your, at your event, taking pictures, being at the award, the metal stands, that kind of thing. And another thing is, you know, figure out what people want. I mean, we all like t shirts, but sometimes the best giveaway or the best metal is something unique. So we talked about just a minute ago, we gave out wooden metals. They weren't metal. They were wooden metals for habitat. We matched it.
And then there was one year you got a glass instead of a metal.
You still have those glasses. Then there's just some glass.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a beard glass. So there is, there is some uniqueness there that can help people remember the event. So they want to come back.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really good point. And the funny thing is, almost everything you just mentioned is about that experience thing we were saying before, right? From pictures to medals to other giveaways. I agree t shirts are cool, but so many tournament players have a ton of t shirts. Now. I'm gonna backpedal a bit and also say that we're starting to see so many new players and so many of them are new coming into the tournaments that it's not really a true statement anymore. I don't think t shirts is really a bad thing. So if you can find a sponsor, especially to have their logo on the t shirt, maybe get some other sponsors on the back of the t shirt, get those t shirts paid for by somebody else. Do that. I want to talk about pricing and then I think we'll call it good. That would be my other recommendation. I think pricing wise, you're going to probably be in the $45 to $75 range per player. You're going to need to expect to spend about $5, maybe five to $7.50, somewhere in that range if you are using pickleball brackets.com and something like a PayPal or other credit card processing system because of the fees that are involved. So I would just say probably 10% off the top is going to go to the system that allows you to register and collect money for the players.
So just kind of keep that in mind and then use that as a guide to trying to figure out how much you want to earn. I would expect any given tournament in its first year to only bring in between 100 and 150 participants.
And I actually think that that takes a lot of work. There are a ton of tournaments you can find on pickleball brackets right now, including some in our own area that have like eight people signed up, and it's a week away, so that's not going to be a tournament. Right. You're just going to have to cancel that.
So it will take a lot of work and a lot of word of mouth, and the best place to do that is in the pickleball community. Get people who are already playing, especially those that love to play in tournaments, get them signed up. Get them signed up as early as you can, get them telling their friends, yeah, that's important. That's really important. If you don't drive traffic, you're not gonna have a tournament.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: True. We locally have found that men tend to play in tournaments and women tend to play in leagues. And I don't know if that's just something that's normal for our area, but that might also help you know who to market to. You don't have to spend a whole lot on marketing. Social media can be enough and word of mouth can be enough. A good flyer that can be handed out is also helpful. We use QR codes for everything.
We don't spend a whole lot of money on the marketing of the event because we have such a strong pickleball community that once something is launched, as long as we've shared it to them and we continue to promote it through them, it does.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: Well, I appreciate your insight and thoughts. This is part one of a two part series. That second part will be out in another week. We've got to get some more people interviewed and so until it happens, we really can't deliver on that second part yet.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: So we hope that this is a great learning experience. So for anyone who's new to tournaments or is even thinking about what to do next.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know what? Let me offer this. We want to help you. Feel free to reach out to us and if you need our contact information, the best way to start would be to just follow suite lobs on Facebook and drop a comment out there and we will get back to you. If you already have our contact information, then hit us up on, you know, mobile, email, whatever you've got for us. But we would love to help you if we can get a tournament going in your area, wherever you live. Skye, thanks again. I love your insight. I love you, of course, course. And I appreciate very much your willingness to do this with me. It's fun. And we're out of here.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: Take care.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: Bye. Everybody, like subscribe and all the fun stuff. Cheers.
