2025 Rules Update!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: It's been a long time. [00:00:01] Speaker B: I know. I've been sick people. It's my fault. [00:00:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:04] Speaker B: I had a terrible cough and I did not want you to have to listen to me cough and cough and cough. [00:00:12] Speaker A: I've had to listen at 1am, 2am. [00:00:14] Speaker B: 3Am, 4am yes, it's been, it's. We got the crud in that in our house and I was the last one to get it. [00:00:21] Speaker A: That's true. And this stuff hangs on does. I had it for like six weeks. [00:00:26] Speaker B: It was. [00:00:26] Speaker A: I didn't feel bad, but I was just coughing non stop. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Sometimes I felt bad though. So you did. [00:00:33] Speaker A: You were out. [00:00:33] Speaker B: I actually like stopped working for a couple days. Do you know me? I am not a napper. [00:00:38] Speaker A: No. Goodness no. My wife's a get her done did type of chick. [00:00:44] Speaker B: So it was. [00:00:44] Speaker A: Sounds like a good. That sounds like a new country song. I could. I could write that one. I'll get chat GPT going in my favorite. [00:00:50] Speaker B: Not a big country music fan. You sure do come up with some great titles. [00:00:53] Speaker A: You baby. Y'all. Y'all hear that? [00:00:57] Speaker B: You're a word Smith. [00:00:59] Speaker A: Oh, that's probably too kind. So we're going to cover rule change. It's been two weeks. I'm like, what did we last say? Rule changes for new rules. [00:01:10] Speaker B: And this is a learning. This is a learning podcast for me tonight. [00:01:15] Speaker A: A learning podcast? [00:01:17] Speaker B: Yep. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Aren't they all, baby? [00:01:22] Speaker B: No. Sometimes I'm the one sharing information. [00:01:26] Speaker A: That's true. Sometimes you are the one sharing information. [00:01:28] Speaker B: Yes. Thank you very much. [00:01:29] Speaker A: Can't deny that one bit. Do you know what I'm doing? No, I'm getting this ready, cuz. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Slight delay. [00:01:42] Speaker A: Gosh, two weeks and I've already forgotten how to use the mixer over here. [00:01:45] Speaker B: One button, people. [00:01:47] Speaker A: It's not actually have to do the whole programming thing to get it to so complicated. [00:01:51] Speaker B: I'm sure. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Oh, why don't you come over here and try it real quick? [00:01:54] Speaker B: I'm sure. [00:01:54] Speaker A: No, I'd like to see that. We'll just put the whole podcast on hold and see how you do. [00:01:59] Speaker B: All right, all right, all right, all right. [00:02:01] Speaker A: Let's act like you did it. Let's see here. No, that's not good, baby. Doing it right. [00:02:06] Speaker B: He is doing this, people. He's trying to set me up to be a fool. [00:02:10] Speaker A: 2025, the year of hardly any rule changes at all. [00:02:14] Speaker B: Good. [00:02:14] Speaker A: So go back out and play. Have a good time. [00:02:17] Speaker B: There are some. [00:02:18] Speaker A: There's a little bit. It's not. [00:02:21] Speaker B: We covered the serve one but you might need one. Yes. In our last. Yes. So in the pro, on the pros play, if it hits the top of the net, it's a let. [00:02:34] Speaker A: That is true. But that's not a 2025 change. [00:02:38] Speaker B: No, but it's not a 2025 change. But some people are still, when they're in rec player and they're in league play, they think that the pro rules apply to them. So you might want to cover that one. That's the only thing I remember from rules that we covered last week. [00:02:54] Speaker A: I think it would be totally fine to re cover that. And you're doing a pretty good job of it already. The big deal, trying to say the big deal. I'm sure somebody's like trying to market that somewhere. The big deal that we see all over the place. And mostly we see this like, you know, on courts where we're not used to playing because the courts where we normally play, everyone tends to follow the same kind of set of rules, Right? Right, wrong or indifferent. But we tend to see it when we go to other places to play because they're not our people and we're like, wait, wait, why? Why do they all follow that rule? Or why do they think that's a rule? And of course we think our rules are right. And of course they think their rules are right. The biggest challenge is watching the pros and thinking that they follow the same rules. Okay, 99% of the time, absolutely. But the serve is pretty much the only thing they don't follow the same rules on. Pros, ppa, pros, mlp. Then there's the pros app who do follow the same rules that we have. [00:03:58] Speaker B: That's not confusing at all. [00:04:00] Speaker A: None whatsoever. And then there's a world pickleball league in the. And then there's the npl, which is the national pickleball league, which is the senior division. I shouldn't say division, but the senior pros that like Rick Whitzkin and those guys head up so they follow the same rules. I believe also that app and the rest of us follow. But I don't. I don't know if they do the lesser. I don't think they do the let serve anyway. Meaning that you can have a let serve. A let serve everybody, just because it's one of the top issues is a ball that hits the net on the way over and from a serve. Huh. And if it lands in the rules are we play that correct. But the special little pros with all their little fancy pants, fast legs don't. But as slower the easiest people designed for getting to the ball don't play that one. [00:04:52] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:04:54] Speaker A: PPA and mlp, as I understand it, although I think MLP last year maybe had different rules, but I think this year they're gonna. They're gonna abide by that rule. I don't freaking know, but there's that, so. But we go to 2025 and talk about the rule changes. There's really, like, one significant rule that I kind of want to highlight that's changed, and it's the definition of when a swing starts. I'm gonna phrase it that way. [00:05:24] Speaker B: We talked about this briefly. [00:05:26] Speaker A: So what do you remember? [00:05:31] Speaker B: I don't remember. For someone that has trouble keeping track of the score, you know. Okay, well, I'd like a refresher, please. [00:05:41] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. The short of it is this. They're essentially saying that it starts when you hit the ball. [00:05:50] Speaker B: The swing starts when you hit the ball. [00:05:51] Speaker A: Huh. Hmm. So now that means, like, if you're in the kitchen, you have a little extra time to get out of the kitchen. [00:05:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:00] Speaker A: And if your paddle touches in the kitchen before you hit the ball. [00:06:05] Speaker B: If your paddle touches the kitchen in. [00:06:07] Speaker A: The kitchen before you hit the ball. [00:06:09] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:10] Speaker A: And we're talking about a volley. Like, there is no kitchen when the ball is bounced. [00:06:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:14] Speaker A: So we're only talking about volley. So it's a no or non volley zone. [00:06:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:18] Speaker A: So if your paddle has touched the kitchen area, the non volley zone before you hit a volley shot, it's no longer a penalty because that's not part of your swing. [00:06:30] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Okay. Well, there you go. Big rule changes for 2025. There is one more kind of really cool rule change that. That's out there, and it's not really a rule change. It's a. I'll call it a rule addition, and I'm very favorable of this rule edition. A lot of people out there are not. Okay, but it's this offer to you from the USAP to try out rally scoring, if you would like. [00:07:00] Speaker B: Interesting. What do you mean by that? I mean, I know what rally scoring. [00:07:03] Speaker A: We do, but it's not really been in the rules. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:06] Speaker A: So they've. They've created their model for how rally scoring is going to work, and they've posted it out in the new rules for 2025, and you can now use that as your official scoring method. It's what's called a provisional rule. [00:07:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:24] Speaker A: Which means it's not guaranteed to continue, but for now, it's in the rulebook now. Three years ago, so it's you're trying. [00:07:32] Speaker B: It out as a rule, And I. [00:07:34] Speaker A: Think three years ago, meaning the 2023 rulebook. So we've since had the 2024 and now the 2025 rulebook. And it's not only three years, but three sets of rulebook. I believe 2023 is the year that they introduced the last provisional rule, which was that you could drop the ball on the serve and have what's called the drop serve, and the ball could bounce before you served it over. That was provisional. I'm pretty sure that's now official. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:01] Speaker A: No longer provisional. So my guess is rally will also be official within a year or two. Just like the. Just like the drop serve is. [00:08:08] Speaker B: Has anything changed on the serve itself other than that? [00:08:12] Speaker A: No. I mean, it doesn't affect the serve. [00:08:14] Speaker B: So the. But the rule still applies that you have to make contact with the ball when it's still at hip level. Remind me of that again. [00:08:25] Speaker A: So there's two serves that you can do. [00:08:27] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:28] Speaker A: If we call the first one the traditional serve. [00:08:30] Speaker B: Yep. [00:08:31] Speaker A: Where the ball does not bounce off the ground. [00:08:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:33] Speaker A: There are three specific rules still in place today. [00:08:36] Speaker B: Let's cover those. [00:08:37] Speaker A: One, your arm and your swing must be in an upward direction. [00:08:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:45] Speaker A: It can be 90 degrees straight up, or it can be, you know, one degree, barely up. But it must be moving up, not down, when you hit the ball. [00:08:53] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:54] Speaker A: At contact. In other words, this is the one that I think most people who. If. Who. If they are violating the rules, are violating. They're coming through at the bottom and kind of chopping the ball down and getting nasty backspin. [00:09:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:07] Speaker A: Creating a really tough return when they serve it to the outside. [00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I see that. I saw that tonight, I think. [00:09:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. But it's really hard in real. In real time to know. You really have to, like, watch it in slow mo video. And then you know that point in time, you're the jerk on the court, so who cares? Go play pickleball. [00:09:24] Speaker B: But if you're an ethical person, you might want to video yourself. [00:09:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't want to serve you legally, and I know that I'm one of the guys that pushes the limits. I hit the ball. [00:09:30] Speaker B: Yeah, you do. [00:09:31] Speaker A: At the bottom. I believe I'm barely coming up at that point in time because I don't cut under it. I cut sideways on it. And I like to spend that I get. And. But I wouldn't want to do it illegally. [00:09:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:44] Speaker A: I've called myself before when I. When I felt hit myself still swinging down on the ball, right? Yeah. The second component to the rules on that serve, this is the traditional serve, is that the paddle, the entire paddle, must be below your wrist. [00:09:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:00] Speaker A: So when you think about holding the paddle, if you have the paddle above your wrist, that gives you an extra opportunity to chop or spin the ball. And so the paddle should be below your wrist, which forces that upward arm motion. [00:10:13] Speaker B: So when you say the paddle's above your wrist, there's basically a break in your wrist. Instead of having your arm. [00:10:20] Speaker A: If you hold your arm straight out to your side and you hold the paddle straight out, the paddle's above your wrist. Only part of the paddle is. [00:10:25] Speaker B: Oh, sure. [00:10:26] Speaker A: That's what forces your arm to be down and causes an upward motion in your swing. So those two really go hand in hand. The third one is like the other two forces you to hit the ball, which is below your waist or at or below your waist. And we define waist loosely as sort of that area without being specific in saying your belly button or anything like that, or your hips. So it's just your waist. And again, if you're hitting the ball with your paddle below your wrist, it's very actually hard to hit the ball above your waist with your paddle below your wrist. [00:10:59] Speaker B: No, but we've seen people serve from the side. [00:11:01] Speaker A: Yeah, but their pals above their waist by the wrist sometimes. Yeah, but here's the time when you actually hit above your waist and people don't know it. [00:11:08] Speaker B: What's that? [00:11:09] Speaker A: A lob serve? [00:11:10] Speaker B: Mm. [00:11:11] Speaker A: If you actually watch where contact is made with a lot of people. That lob serve. [00:11:15] Speaker B: Mm. [00:11:16] Speaker A: That ball is out in front of them, and they're hitting it and. And their arm moves, moving up and their paddles below their wrist, but they're hitting it above their waist, and they make contact. Because that's the natural place that we hit a lob from. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yep. [00:11:27] Speaker A: I'm very careful with my lobs to make sure I have them low and that I cut underneath them as I lob them, because it's very easy to do that wrong. [00:11:34] Speaker B: Yep. [00:11:34] Speaker A: But anyway, those are the three, you know, traditional rules for regular serve. And just real fast. On the drop serve, you hold the ball. You do not impart spin. And actually. Sorry, you can't impart spin on a regular serve either. Traditional serve, either. You can't spin the ball now. [00:11:53] Speaker B: So, like, if you were in. If you're doing a drop serve where it bounces. [00:11:56] Speaker A: No, let's stay on the traditional serve. I made a mistake. So on the traditional serve, you also can't spin the ball because you can throw it up. You can push it, throw it down, but they just can't bounce. [00:12:04] Speaker B: You can throw it down now. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Sure, but you can't bounce it. You've always been able to throw it down. Just means you have to hit it faster. [00:12:11] Speaker B: I'm trying to picture this, people. [00:12:13] Speaker A: Sure. Well, you can add speed to your ball by doing that and add speed to your server by doing that. I've done it a few times. I actually like to throw it toward the paddle, which is sideways rather than down. [00:12:22] Speaker B: It's way beyond whatever. Way beyond my brain. But. [00:12:25] Speaker A: But it reminded me, actually of another rule change for this year. So let me go back to the traditional serve. Those three things. Plus, you can't spin the ball intentionally. There's gonna be some natural spin or rotation of the ball, but you can't intentionally add any spin to the ball. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:38] Speaker A: And this year, you're allowed to serve the ball without using one hand holding the ball. But you can have the ball on your paddle when you toss it to hit it. [00:12:47] Speaker B: What? [00:12:48] Speaker A: Yes. And I think that was implemented for folks that have disabilities. [00:12:52] Speaker B: That's cool. [00:12:54] Speaker A: It is kind of cool. But you are allowed to do that. You also, again, if it's on your paddle, you just have to, like, toss it up. And you're not supposed to take. Use your paddle to, like, spin it up before you serve. Suit. Again, you also can't add spin that way. [00:13:05] Speaker B: Or you could just move it and drop it and then hit it. [00:13:08] Speaker A: Yeah, good luck. Because gravity's fast. It is 9.8 meters per second squared, baby. It goes fast, sure. But you can't add spin. So I think that was added mostly for people who really, you know, need it for reasons of physicality, maybe a. [00:13:24] Speaker B: Stroke or whatever it may be, Whatever disability. Yeah. Correct or challenge that they're facing. [00:13:30] Speaker A: So that is actually a new rule for this year. And it's funny, because it was a rule in the past, and they took it away, and then they brought it back, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, you guys. But most of the rule changes this year, they were just trying to add some clarity to the language, and some of them, they screwed up worse, and some of them they've done a better job with. So, okay, the other serve, which is the drop serve, which we were in the middle of talking about, you cannot add spin. [00:13:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:52] Speaker A: You also cannot add speed. You can't throw the ball up or down or even barely pushed up or barely push it down. You're supposed to just Drop. Hold your hand steady, whatever height you want. And then just open your fingers and let go of the ball. [00:14:04] Speaker B: Yep. [00:14:05] Speaker A: Not moving your arm. [00:14:06] Speaker B: And it's allowed to bounce more than once. Cuz there's. We've seen some tricksters online. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Yes. The ball can bounce more than once. After it bounces once, it can bounce however many times you want to bounce. But you have 10 seconds after the score is called. Just like you do on the other serve. You have 10 seconds. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Okay. Good to know. [00:14:22] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm gonna comment on the drop serve. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Okay. [00:14:27] Speaker A: I don't think enough people are doing it. [00:14:29] Speaker B: I like to do it. I'm still playing. I have my traditional old fashioned way, I guess. And I have a couple. [00:14:36] Speaker A: And that's how I like to serve. [00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah. But I. When I have the time, I like to practice the drop serve. [00:14:43] Speaker A: You can add a lot, a lot of spin and speed to a drop serve. [00:14:49] Speaker B: That's why I want to get good at it. Yeah. [00:14:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm pretty sure. And Zane, we didn't talk about this when we had him on the podcast, but I'm pretty sure Zane worked on a really cool drop serve. You know, so he lost his ability to use his. You know, Zane saw the chainsaw. Zane saw serve, which was when he spun it with his hands. He was so good at it. Like he could make you lose your shorts. It was nasty. [00:15:11] Speaker B: He was. [00:15:12] Speaker A: And he would put like money out on the table and like no one could get it because he was just amazing. Even pros, like he just could smoke some people. Really, really cool serve. But the. But the ruling bodies governed it illegal. [00:15:24] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:15:25] Speaker A: They took it out of the rule book. So then he started working on a drop serve and he actually came up with one. Now he isn't. I don't think he's shown it anywhere, but he's hinted at it and certainly talked about it in certain circles. But he can't do a drop serving pro pickable with ppa. [00:15:41] Speaker B: Oh. [00:15:41] Speaker A: They only have the traditional serve. [00:15:43] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:44] Speaker A: So he, he hasn't been able to unleash it, but he wants them to allow for a drop service. And I think he's ready with something just nasty. So the reason that the drop service so interesting is because you don't have any of those other rules to follow. The ball's probably not going to bounce higher than your waist because it doesn't bounce high. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Sure. [00:16:01] Speaker A: 34 inches or 32 inches I think is. [00:16:04] Speaker B: Especially on a pro court. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Well, any court, the heart of the surface, which may even not be a pro Court might be an unpro court. [00:16:12] Speaker B: A wood surface, maybe? [00:16:13] Speaker A: No, it'd be cement. Cement, yeah, but there's cushion to cement. So anyway, the point I'm trying to get at is you can swing down on the ball, you can come under the ball, you can have your paddle above your wrist, like none of those things matter on a drop. You can do anything you want with the ball on a drop serve as long as you keep your feet behind the line. [00:16:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:30] Speaker A: Or at least one foot behind the line. And you haven't touched the court, you know, playing surface area until after you hit the ball. So. And this wasn't meant to be a serving, um, podcast that's meant to be about the new rule changes in 2025. It just so happens that most of them are around the swing motion, which we just talked about, and the serve. Everything else is pretty much whatever. It's not even worth mentioning. So There you go, 2025 in a nutshell. That's the story. [00:17:01] Speaker B: That's good. [00:17:02] Speaker A: That's our update on rules for. [00:17:04] Speaker B: Well, that's easy. [00:17:05] Speaker A: Yeah, like I said before, it's almost. It's almost play on, you know, hey, it's 2025. New rules. Nah, play on. That's the new rule for 20. [00:17:14] Speaker B: Keep playing. [00:17:15] Speaker A: Just keep playing. [00:17:16] Speaker B: I just try to stick to the rules. It's good to know them. [00:17:21] Speaker A: How well do you think you honestly know, like, the rules? Rules. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Wow. I know enough to teach a brand new person and I know enough to. To stay compliant. But I. I do feel like I. I went to open play tonight and I hit a ball. It caught the top of the net and then went straight down and hit the bar. Bar and I. Crossbar. Yeah. [00:17:49] Speaker A: On which side of the net? [00:17:51] Speaker B: On their side. [00:17:52] Speaker A: So you hit it and it went over and hit their side? [00:17:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:54] Speaker A: What's the rule? [00:17:55] Speaker B: I think that would have been like, theirs. [00:18:00] Speaker A: Why? Where's the logic in that? [00:18:02] Speaker B: Because they couldn't return it. [00:18:05] Speaker A: So why would it be theirs? [00:18:06] Speaker B: Because they couldn't return it. [00:18:09] Speaker A: Well, if you hit a spike that they can't return, whose is it? [00:18:12] Speaker B: Well, that's like. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Hold on. Same logic. [00:18:15] Speaker B: True. [00:18:16] Speaker A: So who's is it if you had a spike and they can't return it? [00:18:19] Speaker B: Mine. [00:18:19] Speaker A: Did they have a chance to return a spike? [00:18:22] Speaker B: Sure. [00:18:22] Speaker A: Do they have a chance to return a ball? That's the crossbar. [00:18:24] Speaker B: No. [00:18:25] Speaker A: So what should it be? [00:18:26] Speaker B: It should be theirs. [00:18:28] Speaker A: Why you just didn't you hit a good shot? [00:18:31] Speaker B: I. I mean, yeah. [00:18:32] Speaker A: I mean, you hit a shot that went over the net. [00:18:33] Speaker B: Yes. [00:18:34] Speaker A: Is it your fault it hit the crossbar? [00:18:35] Speaker B: No. [00:18:36] Speaker A: It mean on an outdoor net without a crossbar. Would it have hit a crossbar? [00:18:40] Speaker B: No. [00:18:41] Speaker A: Whose would it have been then? [00:18:42] Speaker B: Mine. [00:18:43] Speaker A: So what should the rule be? [00:18:45] Speaker B: It's mine. [00:18:46] Speaker A: In a. In a perfect world, what should the rule be? [00:18:49] Speaker B: I feel like this is a trick question. [00:18:50] Speaker A: It is. But if you. Hey, 2024. If you. What's the phrase? [00:18:56] Speaker B: If you use your logic. [00:18:58] Speaker A: If you use all that logic you have what would be a logical fair to everybody outcome? [00:19:05] Speaker B: Redo. [00:19:05] Speaker A: Right. Because they don't have a chance to return it. [00:19:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:09] Speaker A: But if it's on an outdoor court with a regular net with no crossbar on the bottom, the ball would bounce. [00:19:14] Speaker B: Sure. [00:19:15] Speaker A: And they'd have a chance to return it. [00:19:16] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:17] Speaker A: So we're taking away their chance to return it, which is an unfair advantage. [00:19:20] Speaker B: Right. Right. [00:19:21] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:21] Speaker B: So we should have redone it. [00:19:22] Speaker A: Replay. [00:19:23] Speaker B: Which we didn't. We kept it. I like your style, but I felt bad about it afterwards. I was like, wait a minute. I feel like there was something. [00:19:33] Speaker A: And you felt like it should be theirs. Which is? Which is. My wife has a guilty conscience, everybody. She doesn't do anything wrong ever, but she just has that. [00:19:39] Speaker B: I was wrong. [00:19:41] Speaker A: I was born Catholic, you know, I was guilty. [00:19:43] Speaker B: I was brought up Presbyterian, frozen. [00:19:47] Speaker A: Chosen. [00:19:47] Speaker B: Hey, stop it. [00:19:48] Speaker A: Did I say that out loud? [00:19:49] Speaker B: Yes. It's so mean. Anyway, I just. I want to play a fair game and have fun doing it, so. And then there was. Then we did serve, and it hit the top of the net, but it went in. So I was like, oh, I remember that rule. And then one of our opponent, opposition, opposing teams, hit the net, and it went in the kitchen. So that was easy. So a few things happened tonight. I was like, okay, I think I. I think I know some of these rules. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Let's see. Let's do a quick rule quiz for you here. Let's start with an easy one. [00:20:29] Speaker B: I don't like. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Let's start with an easy one. What is the two bounce rule? [00:20:35] Speaker B: You. I mean, two bounce rule means it's done. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Well, it's done. You're not being very specific. It just means it's done. [00:20:42] Speaker B: If you hit a ball and it bounces twice, it's yours. Because if they didn't, they can't hit it on the second bounce. [00:20:49] Speaker A: Interesting. The two bounce rule is after the ball is served, it must bounce once on each side before either team can volley it. [00:20:57] Speaker B: Bounce, Bounce. [00:20:58] Speaker A: That's the two bounce rule. [00:20:59] Speaker B: Of course. Yeah. [00:21:01] Speaker A: I thought I started with an easy One. Maybe I'll have to go easier. [00:21:05] Speaker B: You know, sometimes people try to. [00:21:06] Speaker A: I actually think that would be a two bounce fault. [00:21:09] Speaker B: Okay, gotcha. [00:21:11] Speaker A: This was the two bounce rule tricky. [00:21:13] Speaker B: You did the study? [00:21:15] Speaker A: No, of course not. The reason I thought it would be fun to test you is because if there's one area that I think most pickleball players are wrong in their understanding of the rules, I'm going to bring it up here in a second. It's not what anyone expects. It's not the net server, the let server, the how am I holding the paddle or on the serve? It's not to do with the serves. You know what else is not to do with the non volley zone. [00:21:39] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:40] Speaker A: You know what else? It doesn't have anything to do with lines. Lines or the crossbar or topspin or backspin or anything else you think functionally that's happening during a game. [00:21:52] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:53] Speaker A: It has to do with the paddle. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Oh. [00:21:56] Speaker A: So there's all this discussion right now about these hot paddles, right? I think we briefly talked about that in a recent podcast. [00:22:03] Speaker B: Yes, we did. [00:22:04] Speaker A: Certain yolos are being banned as of July 1st. Certain pro Kennex aces are being banned as of July 1. The gearbox elongated Power, I think is the name of that one that's being also, you know, like, no longer allowed. [00:22:24] Speaker B: How do you know? [00:22:26] Speaker A: When you look at your pal and it says ace on it, you know you have an illegal paddle. [00:22:30] Speaker B: No, I mean, like, is there a list somewhere? [00:22:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, USAP has a list. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:22:34] Speaker A: And they put out a big announcement and everyone wants to sue them and blah, blah, blah. Oh, but these paddles are too hot. [00:22:38] Speaker B: They're hurting people because the ball gets too fast. Yeah, got it. [00:22:43] Speaker A: Okay. And then you go online or you go to your local park and people are still playing with those paddles. [00:22:49] Speaker B: Well, yeah, because they're smoking their friends. [00:22:51] Speaker A: Correct. And you go online to like your typical big Facebook groups, groups like Pickleball Forum by Aspen Current groups like the Kitchen that Jason and Joel run and a few others that are out there. And almost everyone that's complaining about these paddles or having somebody respond to their complaining about the paddles is saying they're not illegal in rec play. It's just that you can't use them in tournament play. [00:23:19] Speaker B: So why would you use them in recplay if you can't use them in tournaments? [00:23:23] Speaker A: I think you misunderstood. Let me say that again, okay? What people are saying is they're not illegal in rec play, they're just illegal in tournaments. And I just Got on telling you that the number one thing that we're getting wrong is our understanding of paddles. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Oh. [00:23:38] Speaker A: Because the paddles are governed in the rules for regular pickleball. [00:23:43] Speaker B: Okay. [00:23:45] Speaker A: 2D, I believe maybe 2E. 2D might be the ball. Let me scroll forward. 2D is the ball. 2E is the paddle. Literally, for the regular rules of pickleball, 2e covers the size, the reflection of the surface, the delamination or holes or cracks or whatever on the surface of the paddle, the weight, any alterations, all kinds of stuff. And then it's just Rule 2. And Rule 2D is about the ball. Here's the type of ball you have to use. Right. [00:24:19] Speaker B: So what you're saying is just because it's not allowed in tournaments, because it's in the rules, it also covers recreation play. [00:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I'm going to make it really crystal clear. You ready? All right. I'm on the rule book right now. 2025 official rulebook. [00:24:36] Speaker B: I see it. [00:24:36] Speaker A: It doesn't say tournament rulebook. [00:24:38] Speaker B: No, this is official rulebook. [00:24:39] Speaker A: First page. USA Pickleball Official Rulebook. Third paragraph. [00:24:44] Speaker B: Read it. [00:24:44] Speaker A: The purpose of the rulebook is to provide pickleball players with the rules necessary. [00:24:49] Speaker B: For recreational, social, organized league and tournament play. Boom. [00:24:55] Speaker A: Suck it, people. [00:24:57] Speaker B: So how do people get this rulebook? [00:24:59] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Google.com. i mean, ask chat, GBT. [00:25:07] Speaker B: I understand. Okay. I didn't mean to ask a stupid question. [00:25:10] Speaker A: You ask a stupid question, what are you gonna get back from me? [00:25:13] Speaker B: You know what? [00:25:13] Speaker A: Stupid answer. [00:25:14] Speaker B: Need to know these things. We need to share it in a nice way. [00:25:17] Speaker A: Here's, here's what I recommend, people. Lmgtfy.com Stop it. That stands for. Let me Google that for you dot com. And it's not a made up thing. [00:25:27] Speaker B: You're so spicy. [00:25:28] Speaker A: Have some fun. People. Go to lmgtfy.com and the next time somebody asks you a stupid question, type in that. Type in their question, send them the link, and it will be awesome because it will happen is when they click the link, do you want people to. [00:25:40] Speaker B: Actually obey the rules or not? [00:25:41] Speaker A: When they click the link, it'll go to Google for them and then it will type in the question that they had. It will show them. It's like a video. It shows you how to use that. [00:25:49] Speaker B: The next time you lose your keys, please do. [00:25:51] Speaker A: And then, and then it shows you the answer. And then it goes, was that so hard? It's awesome. [00:25:56] Speaker B: I remember. [00:25:57] Speaker A: I know you do. Not to you, probably. I wanted to sleep in bed tonight. I don't want to sleep on the couch. Exactly. And I can tease you because you're awesome and smart and I love you, but. Yeah. So, hey, I got news for you. And then, oh, gosh, this yesterday, somehow I avoided just going off on this guy because I really wanted to. But I do my best to not be on Facebook, but I was scrolling through, you know, in the morning wee hours when you're awake, 4:45, trying to fall back asleep, and the city was like, you know, use any paddle you want. You know the rule. The USAP doesn't govern recreational play. And I was like, so what rules do you use? I didn't ask him that, but I was like, are you. Like, how are you thinking at all before you type this? [00:26:47] Speaker B: Are you gonna just take a screenshot of that. [00:26:49] Speaker A: That paragraph I have posted and people don't get it. They don't. Well, you can't tell me how to play at my park. Well, you're right. And guess what? I don't want to play at your park. Because you're a jack wagon. [00:27:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:04] Speaker B: And you know what? There's always one at the park. [00:27:06] Speaker A: But, yeah, we still find them. We still find them and excise them. [00:27:11] Speaker B: Well, no, you just smoke them on the court, and then they're like, I don't want to play with. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Yeah, that's exactly right. Those people deserve to be hit hard in a safe way. In a safe way. We don't want to hurt them. [00:27:21] Speaker B: Just hit hard, win, not smoke them. [00:27:23] Speaker A: I thought you said hit them. [00:27:25] Speaker B: No, but I do have a funny story. [00:27:27] Speaker A: Well, let me just finish. There's 13 sections to the tournament. I'm to the tournament. Huh. Well, that. That's an edit I don't want to waste my time making. So there's 13 sections to the rule book. That's not for just tournaments, but there are tournament sections. Section 12 and Section 13 are for the tournaments. So further evidence that the whole rule book is for all play. And if you want to know about tournaments, then you can look at sections 12 and sections 13 and get more detailed information. Interestingly enough, throughout the rule book, if there's something specific to a tournament, they also call that out. So like in section two, where we were just looking at, you know, the. The information about the. The balls and the information about the. The paddles on 2D, I think it's 2D 2. It talks about the approval of the ball, and the tournament director can choose the tournament ball. [00:28:12] Speaker B: Good to know. [00:28:13] Speaker A: Okay. But if you're going to use a ball and it's in a sanctioned event, then it's got to be on their list of approved balls. [00:28:21] Speaker B: That makes sense. [00:28:21] Speaker A: Okay. There you go. Anyway, that's all good information. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Thank you for sharing it. [00:28:27] Speaker A: My pleasure. [00:28:28] Speaker B: I feel enlightened. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Less. Less burdened by the rules. [00:28:34] Speaker B: You know, I. It does help, because when you are playing at the park or you are playing in league, it helps to be able to know the rules and be able to, you know, stand your ground if you have to in the kindest possible way. [00:28:50] Speaker A: Let's give you a trick question, then we'll close out. [00:28:52] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:28:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Here's the scenario dreading this. James and I are playing you and Robin. [00:28:58] Speaker B: Okay? [00:28:59] Speaker A: You hit a ball that goes up, has the spin to it, bounces backwards and goes back over your net, but it goes over your net sort of on the sideline. And James is able to run around the post and hit that ball back to you guys, but he's now on your side of the court. [00:29:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:17] Speaker A: You hit it back to where he just came from. [00:29:19] Speaker B: Okay. [00:29:20] Speaker A: Because he's not there. [00:29:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:22] Speaker A: He's running back to try and get there before he gets back to our side of the court. He's like, I can nail this thing from here. And he just whacks it again at you. This time, he puts it away. You can't return it. Whose point? [00:29:34] Speaker B: Okay, so let me replay that in my mind. I hit a ball that has a spin. It hits your side of the court. [00:29:42] Speaker A: Yep. [00:29:42] Speaker B: It spins and comes back toward my side. Over the net, over the net. But it's basically going out of bounds in that area. [00:29:51] Speaker A: But there is no out of bounds on your side of the net. [00:29:53] Speaker B: Okay. James is running to do an ATP, basically. [00:29:57] Speaker A: Well, no, he's got to run past the net to get past the net, which is allowed. [00:30:01] Speaker B: Right. Because he's not in my court yet. [00:30:03] Speaker A: Hasn't bounced a second time yet. [00:30:04] Speaker B: Right. And so he hits it and it hits my court or it even volleys toward me, and I hit it to where he was like, you kind of. [00:30:14] Speaker A: Dig it right back to where he just was. [00:30:16] Speaker B: And he. And I. I hit it toward where he was on his side of the court, but he runs back and hits it and smacks me before he gets. [00:30:24] Speaker A: Back across the net to our side. [00:30:26] Speaker B: Yep. [00:30:26] Speaker A: He has a shot on that ball, and he takes it. Okay, but you've just hit it back to him. [00:30:31] Speaker B: So he had. He has not broken the net barrier to go back on his side. [00:30:35] Speaker A: Correct. He's still on your side trying to. [00:30:37] Speaker B: Get back it's still mine because. Because he didn't go back to his side. [00:30:42] Speaker A: He has to get back on the other side of the net before he can play another ball. [00:30:45] Speaker B: Did I get it right? [00:30:46] Speaker A: You got it right. Gracious. Everybody, guess who's ahead of the game? We are. And so are you. [00:31:04] Speaker B: That's what I'm ahead now. I'm ahead of the game. I'm ahead of the game.