The Top Golf of Pickleball?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Thank you for the opportunity to be here and, you know, just be a part of what's going on. I'm a newbie to the community, so I'm getting to kind of know the community at large. And it's people like, you know, Kevin and yourself that have created an environment that allows people like us to kind of come into it and say, okay, how do we take this right and just take that even a little bit further? And that has taken tremendous amount of work on everyone's part. So things like what we're doing today, I love to get behind, just because I understand it's really the grassroots effort that's gotten us to where we're at. And I still think we're at the very, very beginning of it all. [00:00:43] Speaker B: We are. All right, sky, you want to introduce our guest today? [00:00:50] Speaker C: Absolutely. I'm so excited that we have John Hurley here from 24/7 dink, this is such an exciting moment for me. I met him when I was working at CSW, and at first I thought it was just an app, which I thought was pretty exciting in of itself. But then when I learned more, I was like, oh, man, we have got to have him on this show. So John is here with us from morning. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Hello. Yes. [00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Good morning, everyone. Welcome. [00:01:15] Speaker C: And thank you for being here. [00:01:16] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I am thrilled to be here. When we spoke. Gosh, what is it? Back in the spring? [00:01:21] Speaker B: I think it was May. [00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah, back in the spring. And you had mentioned that I go, I would love to be a part of it. I love what, you know, the community is doing in pickleball. And, you know, like I was saying earlier, it's these efforts like these that have created an atmosphere or a platform for people like myself to get really interested in the opportunities that pickleball really provides for kind of that next generation. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I'm going to start with some. I'm going to start with two questions that have nothing to do with pickleball. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Love it. [00:01:52] Speaker C: Let's do it. [00:01:53] Speaker B: Get to know you a little bit better type of questions. They won't be as hard as we asked Blake on the previous call, I asked her which one of her kids was her favorite. [00:01:59] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that would be a tough one. [00:02:02] Speaker B: I got easier ones for you. I think these are going to be music related. [00:02:05] Speaker A: All right, let's do it. [00:02:06] Speaker B: Do you have a go to karaoke song? [00:02:09] Speaker A: Oh, it would have to be something from Mellencamp. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Oh, all right. [00:02:16] Speaker A: You know his range? I can kind of stay in his range. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:21] Speaker A: Right there's a few things I can't do, but I can at least stay about 70% of the time within his range and make it sound like I can kind of sing. [00:02:28] Speaker B: There you go. [00:02:29] Speaker A: Right? [00:02:29] Speaker C: Love it. [00:02:30] Speaker B: That's a great answer, sky. You also get to answer this question. [00:02:33] Speaker C: Oh, dear. I don't know. You know, music trivia is so terrible for me. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Isn't trivia, it's your go to karaoke song. [00:02:41] Speaker C: I would say probably lean on me. [00:02:43] Speaker B: Oh, a little there. [00:02:44] Speaker A: Bill Withers. [00:02:45] Speaker B: Is that right? Bill Withers? [00:02:46] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:02:46] Speaker B: Lean on me. [00:02:47] Speaker C: Something I sing in choir. [00:02:49] Speaker A: I can tell. You can sing? [00:02:51] Speaker B: I did when I was younger. [00:02:52] Speaker A: Oh, I can tell. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm not near that, by the way. [00:02:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I got lucky then. I got lucky on that one. [00:02:59] Speaker C: He is a good singer. [00:03:00] Speaker B: All right, question number two. Also a music question. [00:03:03] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:03:05] Speaker B: If you were sitting with your MLP team and you were one of the four players playing in the championship, the national championship match, and they're introducing the players. What's your walk on song? [00:03:16] Speaker A: Ooh, gosh. I can think of the song. I don't remember the title. You know, it's. [00:03:24] Speaker B: What? Give us some words. [00:03:26] Speaker A: What is this? It's in my head. You know what? Everybody, you know, everybody jump. I don't know. [00:03:35] Speaker B: I can't jump around. [00:03:36] Speaker C: Jump around. [00:03:37] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:39] Speaker B: That's a good one. [00:03:40] Speaker A: So, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. All right. That's terrible answer. Terrible. [00:03:46] Speaker C: No, it's great. [00:03:47] Speaker B: Do you have one? [00:03:50] Speaker C: We will rock you. [00:03:51] Speaker B: We will. [00:03:55] Speaker A: There you go. I like it. [00:03:56] Speaker B: I mean, that's a classic from my work. Survivor, old woman song right there. [00:04:02] Speaker C: That's later. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Is that from your taekwondo days? [00:04:05] Speaker C: I don't know. Possibly. Usually if we were. If it was belt testing day, there'd be some sort of rocky soundtrack on or something. [00:04:16] Speaker B: So here's your next question, sky. What's my walk on song? [00:04:19] Speaker C: Thunder. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Thunder struck. [00:04:22] Speaker C: Thunderstruck. [00:04:23] Speaker B: AC DC. [00:04:24] Speaker C: Yes. Every tournament we were listening to that in the car. [00:04:28] Speaker B: Although I do love a song called I'm about to level up. Yes. [00:04:31] Speaker C: You like that one, too. [00:04:32] Speaker B: So it depends on where I'm at. If I'm at the church, it's probably level up. If I'm at a public tournament, it's probably thunderstruck. Yep. Sorry, pastors. Okay, let's shift to pickleball. [00:04:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:45] Speaker B: We would love to know the story of how you got into pickleball. I'm assuming you play. [00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. [00:04:50] Speaker B: So how'd you get into just playing pickleball? [00:04:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So pandemic I think we all have a pandemic story, right? The really started to be more prevalent and relevant. I kept hearing about it. I couldn't line up the word pickle and ball, right? So I had to do some googling to go, okay, is this a sport that I'd be interested in? And I live in Carmel. We have a community center called the Carmel Monon center. And I kept trying to sign up for their lessons, right? Kind of this beginner, too. And I think they do it twice a year, maybe twice a spring and a fall. And spring went, I couldn't get in. Fall went, I couldn't get in. So finally I call and I say, hey, I'm a member here. I can't seem to get into this program. And the lady on the phone says, listen, that's the hardest thing to get into. Here's what you got to do. We drop it at like, I don't know, 1201. She goes, you gotta be on. I mean, it was something silly like this, right? And I go, okay, I'll set my calendar, which I did. And I was able to get into this. And I think it was like a six week program. Oh, wow. And you just kind of, you know, you learn the scoring, the playing, right? And gosh, I really enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun. So the kind of natural progression is the girl I was seeing at the time said, hey, would you like to do maybe some leagues? I found a league for CCA in the summer. I go, that'd be great. Let's do this. So we did a beginner league and just had a blast. And it was like, oh, but here's what I kept seeing. I'm an entrepreneur, and I just, everywhere I went, I saw these masses of people trying to get in and how hard it was and difficult. So we played in the league, that summer league in broad ripple at their community center, and it was on a basketball court that they had retrofitted, which is pretty common. And, you know, you've got lines everywhere and the lights are all over the place, and it is what it is. So I thought, and there has to be better things. So when I started to search and see where there was like an actual pickleball facility, that was much harder to find, and I'm like, okay, we're missing something here. So as I kind of thought through that, I was in the process of selling my software company and kind of thinking about what that next chapter looked like for me. I thought, wow, how can I capitalize and do, you know, really bring open this sport up for a lot more people like myself. So started kind of looking at the economics of it and really couldn't make it work, and had a great conversation with one of my business mentors, and he said, what if you put a tech spin on that? You know, tech, right, right. You understand facilities. What if you could do a tech spin and look at it from that lens? And once I started looking at it from that lens, I go, oh, wow, this could be really, really cool. And that's kind of the start of it. So that that kind of vision started in June of last year. Met with the mayor of fishers and kind of pitched him on my tech concept. He said, I've got a perfect place for you at 116th and Brooks school. We're looking for something to really revitalize that corner of Fisher's. We feel this would, you know, this would be great. I had worked with Mayor fadness on some other projects in downtown Indy, and, you know, so we kind of had a good working relationship and, you know, just didn't really hit, you know, I didn't have any spreadsheets or anything. And he looked at me, goes, John. He goes, I've had 20 people sit in that chair and talk about pickleball. He goes, I know it's big. He said, but he goes, I think you've got an idea that might actually work. And really, the whole premise of what we're trying to provide is almost like a park in some ways. Build the best in class facility, allow anybody to use it, ranging from $5 drop in fees to $15 drop in fees. Add some dynamic programming on top, use technology to allow us to create some of this, what we call elastic inventory, where if you want to reserve a court, you can, but you can also drop in. And we kind of take out of this inventory and then, yeah, host great tournaments and really plug into the community. We are working with mud socks right now, which is like the youth program for fishers. They've got a fantastic pickleball youth program. We're rolling into that and really make pickleball for everyone. That casual player up to somebody that plays like yourself, Kevin, more regularly that can come in and really just track your play, you know, be able to. We believe Pickleball has this really cool community aspect to it that's just interesting, right? It's such an interesting sport. You know, I was just telling one of my business partners on another venture, I said, he was, what is this thing? I go, look, here's the thing, man. I can't think of a lot of sports where it does. It's, it's, it's gender neutral. Okay. You can play with your partner. It's age neutral. [00:09:41] Speaker B: Yep. [00:09:42] Speaker A: It's like, I can play that with my kids and I can play it with my parents, and I just don't know it many sports, and I can do that pretty much at any level. If you want to take it to the competitive level, you can. And I go, that's something really special happening. And I said, you know, to create a platform that allows really people to give us their most valuable resource, which is their spare time, I'm passionate about. I think that's a great thing to do and to what I refer to as kind of democratize the sport in that make it where you can just do it on a cold Saturday afternoon and go play much like you would with bowling or any of those kind of recreational activities. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Okay, John, I'm not making fun of you when I say this, but I, but, uh oh, that was a great and very long answer. And that's what you get. That's what you get when you ask everybody what gets them into pickleball. They just want to talk. Like, I got all the stuff to. [00:10:31] Speaker C: Share their passion, too. I can just hold on. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Let me just check off all the questions I had written for you real quick here. I do have one left. [00:10:43] Speaker A: Goodness. Oh, goodness. [00:10:45] Speaker B: All right, so let's go back to your leagues for a minute. Sure. You're playing against people you love to beat, let's say. Yep. Or maybe just a group that you're used to playing with. Do you have a favorite shot you like to hit against them? [00:10:59] Speaker A: I don't know. I mean, can you be more specific? [00:11:02] Speaker B: Well, for me, it would be an overhead smash right at their feet or maybe give them a tattoo on their calf or their thigh. [00:11:09] Speaker C: Yeah. He also likes to do a nasty Nelson whenever possible. [00:11:13] Speaker B: I do. [00:11:14] Speaker A: I'm sorry, Kevin. I'm not quite at the, at the level terminology for my play. [00:11:19] Speaker C: That's okay. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Okay, well, let's take away that. Let's take away your level of ability for a second. Not that you have, just haven't played. No ability, whatever. [00:11:34] Speaker A: I'm like a three if I'm lucky. [00:11:36] Speaker B: Let's go to where everyone has an ability. [00:11:37] Speaker C: High five. [00:11:38] Speaker B: Are you known for saying anything frequently on the court? [00:11:41] Speaker A: I can't say that on air, unfortunately. Yeah, that's fair. Comes out so naturally, too. [00:11:51] Speaker B: Yeah, mine too. I pushed the boundaries a little bit with it, but true. Everyone knows what it is, so I don't have to say it again on the air. [00:12:00] Speaker C: So true. [00:12:01] Speaker B: That's fair. I think you gave us a little bit of this earlier. Is there anything we didn't catch about what sparked your interest about getting into the industry beyond? I know you said, I just saw these people paddles down waiting to get in or trying to get into beginners classes. [00:12:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So, listen, I grew up on the east side of Indianapolis. I didn't go to a country club until I took my oldest daughter to a bar mitzvah. And that was in probably my thirties. So I grew up in a very working class area. I was a latchkey kid, and there were very clear boundaries of where I was able to play and not play. And that's kind of made me who I was. And what I saw in this sport was it was turning into much like another country club sport. So really a driving factor for me from the get go is how can we again, democratize it, put down boundary or get rid of the boundaries and allow everybody to play the sport. [00:13:02] Speaker B: So, love it. [00:13:02] Speaker A: So that's why we were adamant from day one that we wouldn't have memberships, and we had to figure out a way to make it economically viable, right? So I knew the only way to really do that at scale is through technology. So it allows us to do a lot more with a lot less. Now, the flip side of that is it's taken a lot of engineering, a lot of investment in that engineering. We own all the software, but it's given us a lot of flexibility and to be as agile as we need to be in kind of this changing market. But that's my why. And I think it's important in anything we do to have a genuine why. And I really do want to open it up. We've been very, very, every decision we have made coming into this sport is really newbies is on player experience from top to bottom. We think about, what is that experience going to be from the player? Because, again, people are giving us their most valuable resource, and that is their spare time. And we want to make that experience as easy and as frictionless, but as fun as we possibly can and show people. Show people what a world class pickleball facility can look like and feel like and not be able to break the bank doing it. [00:14:28] Speaker B: I love it. My next question will probably take us a little bit farther down that path, and then we'll try and circle back to maybe some more lighthearted fun stuff. In pickleball, you're sitting in a room of entrepreneurs. We love having our businesses as well. [00:14:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:41] Speaker B: She's run multiple coffee shops, a restaurant, cafe. I'm a partner in a company called Disruptive. You might have seen this on the door on the way in. [00:14:48] Speaker A: I did. [00:14:48] Speaker B: We believe in disrupting industries. That's what we work towards. And you're disrupting this industry. [00:14:52] Speaker C: Love it. [00:14:53] Speaker B: What I think I hear from you, and we haven't talked about this, so I might be off, but what I think I hear from you is you're looking at a tech play more than you're looking at gameplay. [00:15:02] Speaker A: A hundred percent. [00:15:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:04] Speaker A: That was how we came in. This is a tech company that happens to use. Use pickleball. Right. So it has. We. Everybody goes into pickleball and thinks infrastructure. We look at it as a data play. If you're not thinking of your company as a software company in today's world, if you don't start as a software company and think outward, you will get beat. Okay. [00:15:27] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:28] Speaker A: So we. We are front and center tech, and we've had. I can't 20 different people say, hey, can we buy that software? The answer is no. The answer is never. We will never sell it any more than Topgolf would sell their software to a competitor. If you take top golf software out of that, it becomes a driving range. [00:15:49] Speaker B: So will you license it? You'll only open facilities where you put your tech on it. [00:15:54] Speaker A: You got it. [00:15:55] Speaker B: You got it. [00:15:55] Speaker A: So we're going to take that. [00:15:56] Speaker B: You're the topgolf of pickleball. [00:15:57] Speaker A: You got it. That's our approach. Right. So, and we feel if it doesn't work in Fishers, Indiana, with the demographics and density that we have, it doesn't work. Okay. [00:16:06] Speaker B: Now my mind is spinning. So are we going to have, like, a target range, a pickleball target range, or a fun little space where we can. [00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So what our. What our goal is is this. Our goal is to learn. So, as a foundational piece, what we're doing from inventory and the social connection is. Is unlike anything that's out there. And we have. We were very purposeful not to look at anything out there. [00:16:30] Speaker B: And Fisher's is the first location, correct? [00:16:32] Speaker A: Yes. Yep. 116th and unbroken school. Yeah. [00:16:35] Speaker B: Okay. [00:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:35] Speaker C: Annie's taken an old marsh and revitalized it. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Yep. From top to bottom. You won't know it's a marsh. I mean, 58,000 sqft. It's gonna be just tremendous. [00:16:44] Speaker C: That just makes my heart so happy. [00:16:46] Speaker B: On your left is my sheets. There's just a stack of them here. It starts with BlackBerry, and it goes backwards of all these companies that were nothing, that were not creative or weren't software real truly software companies. [00:16:56] Speaker A: I love this one. Here's a phenomenal story. I mean how is that even possible? [00:17:00] Speaker B: I know. I don't get it. I don't get it. Look at that. [00:17:03] Speaker A: We're looking at BlackBerry by the way. [00:17:05] Speaker B: At one point in time. I mean it's ridiculous. Apple who dominates them now is worth 3000 times as much. [00:17:12] Speaker C: It's so incredible. Yeah. If you need to follow that story people. [00:17:16] Speaker B: Oh my gosh. Okay so then my next. So go ahead. Well I think I, I think you're heading down this path. I still want to know like I think of top golf and I'm like can I hit that 150 yards? Okay. [00:17:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's what we're excited about. So that's where we're definitely going to take it. Our goal is this, there are people like yourself that are our players. Okay. And you're just going to play. We're really not targeting you. We know you're going to come to our facility because your friends are sure. Okay. We are our whole marketing, everything we're doing is to open it up to everyone. Okay. So our goal, our front and center is to get the people that have never played into our facility. [00:17:58] Speaker B: I so love it. [00:17:59] Speaker A: That is everything we market, everything that we do. We will have what we call clinics, we're going to call classes. Okay. Beginner classes for everybody to come in. We will have those going every day. We will provide you balls, we will provide you paddles. [00:18:16] Speaker C: Wow. [00:18:17] Speaker A: We will, our goal is to get you in and then remarket you to get you to come back and come back. And I think we could probably get six out of every ten people that come in to come back again and back again and back again. So we want to get that really early player and we want to give them a roadmap so to speak. Where you're going with the tech is absolutely. So our next thing as we develop our vision, aih, we'll say, okay, court number 16, it's your beginner. Take your ball and put it over in that square. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:46] Speaker A: And now let's play a game of square one, square two and see how many times we can do that. And then you're going to look at your screens and see where those balls are going. [00:18:53] Speaker B: We have like laser lights that highlight spots on the floor or. [00:18:56] Speaker A: Well no. So we'll have the screens on each side. So we have 60 inch monitors on each side. We have touchscreens at each end. So we can now have the player interact with the play. Now that right now is the framework. So we're just kind of laying the. [00:19:09] Speaker B: Framework so they'll look at the screen. It'll be like. It'll draw a circle, or whatever area of the court you got will say that's your target. And then you hit on the court. [00:19:16] Speaker A: Yep. [00:19:17] Speaker B: And then it will show you where you got or how close you got it. [00:19:19] Speaker A: So we're gonna help develop those skills so that we can get more moving. [00:19:23] Speaker B: To 116th and Brook school. Put some apartments above that old marsh wars. [00:19:27] Speaker C: See ya, Madison county. [00:19:28] Speaker A: So, you know, I know you're asking me a lot earlier about pickleball, and I just got it. You know, in full training transparency, I've played pickleball less than 20 times. [00:19:36] Speaker B: That's all right. You know, thanks. Welcome to our community. [00:19:39] Speaker C: We're happy to have you. [00:19:41] Speaker A: And I, when I. When I spoke, I mentioned the mayor early on, right when I left his office, I said, mayor, I go, I think it's important to know. I've only played 20 times. And he looks at me and he has this kind of like, what? And I said, here's why I think that's important for you to know, mayor. And then, of course, you guys to know is because it allows me to come in from a completely different perspective. [00:20:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:20:03] Speaker A: As. As the layman, what. What. How do I interact with that? What makes sense for me as that player coming into the sport and what you already know, which we're going to share with everybody else, is that it's a fun sport. [00:20:17] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. Yeah. [00:20:18] Speaker A: And it's a great way to meet people, and it's something healthy we can do. And, you know, there's just. I mean, in a world that we're so connected to our devices, if we can somehow take that device and then put it into a real world, experiences. I mean, to me, for me, my. Like, life. That's magical. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Yes. So interesting. Some of the things you're doing. We. I always am thinking, what can I do that's new? Again, it's part of our theme song ahead of the game. What can I do that's new? So this year, I brought out a badminton net, which is exactly the same length as a pickleball net. [00:20:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:55] Speaker B: Strapped the poles to the pickleball poles, put up the bad bitten net. It creates about a 15 inch gap between the two. [00:21:01] Speaker A: Okay. [00:21:02] Speaker B: Okay. Now practice. Now practice your dinking through that hole. [00:21:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:21:06] Speaker B: That's a good idea. Drives through that hole. [00:21:08] Speaker A: Sure. [00:21:09] Speaker B: You get instant feedback. [00:21:10] Speaker A: Sure. [00:21:13] Speaker B: This year, we implemented adding a speed gun. We had a radar gun out on some of the courts. And you'd be shocked. I mean, you wouldn't be, because this is what you think. People just are like. They just gravitate towards that speed gun. They were like, 35. I can hit faster than 35. You know, hit it 25 more times. They're like, I got 37, and I can beat 37, and they hit 25 more times. And by the way, my record is. [00:21:38] Speaker C: I cannot hit that hard and get it in the court. [00:21:42] Speaker B: We think. And we were published in Pickleball magazine. Okay. We think we were the first ones to ever do black light pickleball, for sure. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Really? [00:21:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is now called glow in the dark pickleball. Yeah. Where was that at six years ago? At Bethany Christian Church, right down the road. [00:21:55] Speaker A: Awesome. Yeah, I was just up at Ace Pickleball in Fort Wayne three weeks ago. Yeah. Phenomenal facility. A great ownership. And here's one thing I'll say about the pickleball community at large, is everybody that's kind of coming up, I've met them. All right. And you know what I love about that? That's the world I come from. The world I come from is, hey, we're open. We share. Let's just. Let's get there. You know, if we get there, you know, from a collective, we're just going to get there so much faster. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Yes. That's one of the biggest things it's hard to convince people of. You know, I work with a tennis facility, and I cannot get them to understand that it's okay for there to be a competitor that has pickleball. [00:22:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:22:37] Speaker B: In fact, it's good. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Yes. [00:22:39] Speaker B: It's actually a really good thing that there are other. Absolutely. We were talking about fishers the other day. I think it's the new mecca for pickleball. We got chicken and pickle coming in 24/7 dink. Of course, the phenomenal cage campus is there. I play there. I love that location. There's another one coming to town. [00:22:53] Speaker A: Now I'm familiar. Hitler. [00:22:56] Speaker B: Yes. Thank you. Yep, yep. I thought that's what was. I can remember for just a second, but. [00:23:00] Speaker C: So, like, I had heard, but I hadn't heard. [00:23:01] Speaker B: I tell you something, it doesn't matter. That chicken pickles give me $40 an hour, and you're gonna be five dollar drop in. Everyone's gonna be busy. [00:23:07] Speaker A: Everyone's gonna be busy. [00:23:08] Speaker B: They're all gonna play all the locations. [00:23:09] Speaker A: And I met. I met the ownership of chicken and pickle again, it's that? Hey, listen, I think I'm not threatened. What's your models? Completely different model. I love their model. Right. I love what they're doing. And, you know, 85% of their revenue is from food and beverage. We don't offer food and beverage. [00:23:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Right. I think there's some great synergy there and opportunities for us all. And, you know, you mentioned something. You mentioned Fishers and fishers. And fishers. Here's what I didn't know. Again, I'm a layman coming into this world, right? I didn't know about Cynthia Park. I didn't know about, you know, all these great players and, you know, and Steve Cage and him, you know, his contribution. So I am coming in to this sweet spot of pickleball, like, in terms of the demographics, location, and, you know, I'll just share with you, I've got a much bigger vision at play here in terms of what I want to do for fishers. And I've already kind of, you know, engaged with, with leadership in the area is. Is I want fishers to be the pickleball capital of the United States. [00:24:15] Speaker B: I'm ready. I'm going to shock you with something that you may not know about Fisher's pickleball. [00:24:20] Speaker A: I'm sure there's probably a lot I don't know. [00:24:22] Speaker B: I think you're way more dialed in than I am, but this one might catch you by surprise. [00:24:25] Speaker A: What you got? What you got? [00:24:26] Speaker B: We think there are more cul de sac pickleball courts and fishers than any other town in the US. [00:24:31] Speaker A: That is a high likelihood. High likelihood. [00:24:34] Speaker B: Actually have a friend who we are working on with the city officials, their parks department, creating a cul de sac tournament next year. [00:24:41] Speaker A: Actually, I have heard that. I heard that through the great volume. I have heard that. And I have heard. I haven't heard that. That's the pickleball cul de sac capital. [00:24:50] Speaker B: Of the world we think it is. [00:24:52] Speaker A: No, I think it takes a long. [00:24:53] Speaker B: Time on Google Maps to compare. [00:24:57] Speaker A: It wouldn't be that hard to do. [00:24:58] Speaker B: We know of at least four on the east side of 69 and four on the west side of 69. So we're thinking a little four on four to get things going and. Yeah. [00:25:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting. So let's. Let's just use that. So in Carmel, Indiana, you may or may not know, our swim team is one. [00:25:16] Speaker C: Amazing. [00:25:16] Speaker A: Yeah. They're 30 years of national championships. What people don't know is the history of that and why. And I didn't know it either until I moved there close to 20 years ago. Well, one of the early city ordinances was a requirement to have a neighborhood pool. So we were one of the first cities in America that every neighborhood had a pool. Now what came out of that was, hey, we've got these great pools. We have a lot of kids. Why don't we come up with little swim programs for these kids that became, you know, leagues, which essentially created this massive feeder program that went into Carmel schools. [00:25:55] Speaker B: So smart. [00:25:56] Speaker A: And what's great about that, it was organic. Okay, so when I'm hearing that, what you're saying, back to what I was saying, I believe Fisher's, Indiana can be next to. I think Naples owns that, you know? Okay. [00:26:10] Speaker C: Sure. [00:26:10] Speaker A: Got a lot going on down at. [00:26:11] Speaker B: The non professional level. [00:26:12] Speaker A: At the non professional level, that's fair. And I think that we could make fishers really that that place, what people think of as, hey, we've got, this. [00:26:20] Speaker B: Is a pickleball mecca, amateur capital of the world. [00:26:23] Speaker A: You got it. Do some real prize money. And I mean, just make it huge. [00:26:28] Speaker B: Bring it on, Austin. Pro pickleball capital of the world. Now we'll see if that lasts. Once we get our feeder program going here in fishers, Indiana, we'll become the new pro capital world. [00:26:43] Speaker C: Let's do it. [00:26:44] Speaker B: I envision a day when St. Navratal has to introduce me. [00:26:47] Speaker C: Oh, my goodness. He does dream big. I will say. [00:26:51] Speaker A: I love dreamers. [00:26:52] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:26:52] Speaker A: You know, I was a dreamer growing up. I was an average student. You know, back when the days where your teacher would put your, write your, like, your grades on and on the back of that, there was a place for them to put some feedback, right? For you to give your parents. And one thing that was common, you know, we think he has the aptitude. He's just a dreamer. [00:27:13] Speaker B: He's just always, like, staring up at. [00:27:15] Speaker A: The walls, you know, thinking about what I was gonna do the next day and. [00:27:18] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, heck yeah. What game are my friends and I gonna play at lunchtime today? [00:27:22] Speaker C: Meanwhile, Kevin's in the principal's office, as. [00:27:26] Speaker B: Was I. Kevin, I only got suspended three times in high school. [00:27:33] Speaker C: You set the bar. [00:27:34] Speaker B: I consider that modest number. The rest of us are doing what I probably deserved. [00:27:39] Speaker A: I was sophomore. I was passing a note. I got suspended for three days. [00:27:42] Speaker C: Okay, wow, that's brutal. [00:27:44] Speaker B: Passing a note. [00:27:45] Speaker A: It was ridiculous. I got. [00:27:46] Speaker B: I got it once for eating in the classroom, but the teacher had just made an announcement and then left the classroom and didn't watch through back windows as I was eating. So I was like, well, I guess I deserve that one. [00:27:55] Speaker A: That's a suspension, though. [00:27:56] Speaker B: One day. Only a one day. I got some other good ones. [00:28:00] Speaker C: I'm pretty sure he pushed a all the buttons, and that's probably the last straw. [00:28:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I was in the principal's office a good dozen plus times. [00:28:08] Speaker A: Hence why we're entrepreneurs. [00:28:10] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Right? And they probably knew it. They probably were like, these stupid kids are gonna be great. I can't be that mean to them right now. I don't want to ruin their lives. Okay. I think that you're on to something, and what you're talking about might be the answer to my question. So you can't use it. [00:28:27] Speaker A: Okay. [00:28:28] Speaker B: You gotta give me something different than tech. [00:28:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:28:30] Speaker B: Or at least different than your tech. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. [00:28:32] Speaker B: Here's the question. What do you think has been the greatest innovation or change in our sport in the past three years? [00:28:39] Speaker A: Great. Information change. [00:28:42] Speaker B: Yep. Greatest innovation or change in our sport in the last three years? [00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I wish you would have, like, send me these questions. I know. [00:28:48] Speaker B: I never do. [00:28:50] Speaker A: I know, man. I'm going, gosh, that's a great, cool innovation. [00:28:53] Speaker C: He likes the reaction. [00:28:54] Speaker B: I do. [00:28:55] Speaker A: So, you know, naturally, I'm thinking from a tech perspective, but I don't think. [00:28:59] Speaker B: And that's okay. Just can't be your tech, right? [00:29:00] Speaker A: It can't be my tech. I think a lot, you know, can be in process, too. It's interesting. I think process simple things that we think are simple take. Take time and evolution to get to, you know what I mean, from a process perspective. So I'm kind of trying to think from that angle. Gosh, what do I think has changed? [00:29:17] Speaker B: This might be a tough question for a guy who's only played 20 times, too, but I think your fingers are the pulse of pickleball. [00:29:21] Speaker A: You know, I just recently on my Facebook feed, saw this way to kind of keep track of your score. So that's popping up in my head, but, like, no, that's not changing the game. Some tech guy out there that came out with something cool. I don't have a good answer for you on that one, Kevin. I'm sorry. I don't. I don't. [00:29:37] Speaker B: That's fair. [00:29:38] Speaker C: If he could use his tech, he probably would have said that. [00:29:40] Speaker B: I would hope so. [00:29:41] Speaker A: I. Believe me, I'm going to disrupt the industry. [00:29:44] Speaker B: And I'm all, listen, I am on board with that, my friend. [00:29:47] Speaker C: I'm so excited we're on your train. [00:29:49] Speaker B: We think that there are. I'll say. I'll speak on my wife's behalf. If you don't agree, feel free to jump in. But we think there are two main sects of pickleball. [00:29:57] Speaker A: Okay. [00:29:58] Speaker B: The I play pro or I follow the pro sect and the I just want to go play pickleball. [00:30:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:30:05] Speaker C: I'm on this. I'm on the second team. [00:30:07] Speaker A: Yeah. As a nice guy. [00:30:09] Speaker B: I'm in both because I want to be completely immersed in pickleball. I think for the pros that the greatest innovation coming is going to be the new like Hawkeye type camera that they have to, to really make better line calls. Because that has been an egregious challenge to our sport for years and it has been embarrassing on like the ESPNs and CBSs of the world when we have arguments about a call being in or out. [00:30:31] Speaker A: Sure. [00:30:31] Speaker B: Pathetic. [00:30:32] Speaker C: Yep. [00:30:32] Speaker B: So I think that might be one of the greatest innovations. [00:30:38] Speaker A: So that's why I was like, well, we're doing the score tracking and the lines, right. So I couldn't use Hawkeye as the example. [00:30:46] Speaker B: What's the, what's the one at CSW placeite play site? Are you. [00:30:51] Speaker A: No, we're doing our own. Playsight is a great, great technology and allows you to spin up quickly what we want to do. And the reason we're not using that is we want to integrate that camera, that play into the actual application itself and not have it as a standalone application, but as an easy off the shelf product. I really do like their technology. I think it's affordable. They allow, you know, clubs to kind of have that and give players that opportunity to do it. I like their, their pay model. I think it's a, it's a great program. [00:31:22] Speaker B: So here's something that I love about them. That's the, that's outside of all the things you just said and thing I love the most about them is that I can go to my court slash that QR code. My wife can watch from home. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Yep. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Will we be able to watch? [00:31:34] Speaker A: Yes. That's our, that's our goal. So we're, we're teaming up with Vimeo on that. [00:31:39] Speaker B: Oh, super. [00:31:40] Speaker A: To handle the streaming portion. So we'll do the processing local, push it up to the cloud and then if they want to share that stream, they'll be able to do it through any social media. So if you want to do like a Facebook live. [00:31:51] Speaker B: Yep. [00:31:51] Speaker A: Or if you just want to go and see it from Vimeo, which is going to give you the highest quality. [00:31:56] Speaker B: Good for Vimeo because they got to compete against YouTube and they're getting smacked. [00:31:59] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, with their. So their whole play right now and has been for some time, is on that business front. Right. Is to really own high quality videos. Yeah, they're great, and I've used them for years, so that was a natural. And they recently, I'd say recently in the last, say, I don't know, 24 months. Twelve months. What? You know, I'm getting old. So whatever that is really has. They've leaned into the whole streaming side of things. [00:32:21] Speaker B: You did yourself with the Latchkey kid comment earlier, so we already tagged you as a Gen Xerx. [00:32:34] Speaker C: So you may not be able to reveal this. But as you had mentioned and you're looking at other locations. [00:32:41] Speaker A: Yep. [00:32:41] Speaker C: Are you already kind of putting a list in your head of where you want to be? [00:32:45] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. So we are what we have found, and this is going to be a real, real challenge. And, I mean, this is very front and center right now. And on the business side, at scale with pickleball facilities, they don't exist. What we got was Washington. We were lucky, okay, to get what we got. Now, if you want high, you know, a lot of retail, it's there, but it's not in the areas that we want to be. Right. And I don't want to, you know, I'm looking around, it's like, there's plenty of. So we all think this big box retailers left town. [00:33:20] Speaker C: Yep. [00:33:21] Speaker A: And they have in certain areas of a city, but they haven't in the newer developed areas. [00:33:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:26] Speaker A: In fact, it's almost impossible to get it. So they moved. They've moved. So our strategy is, we have partnered with new city development on this one, but our strategy is to build from the ground up in these high density areas of a city. Also, our strategy is we won't go south of Indianapolis. Our goal is to continue to move north. [00:33:48] Speaker B: Oh, come on up. We're ready for you. [00:33:51] Speaker A: So we are. [00:33:52] Speaker B: We happen to have a lot of empty ones here. Perhaps there's a reason for that. [00:33:57] Speaker A: Well, we would certainly look into that. So that's our whole strategy. So we have our eyes on a location in Indianapolis where we would buy the ground and then build up. We've engaged with some architects on what the feasibility would be in getting zoning, etcetera. So our goal is obviously right now is, let's get this up, let's learn as much as we possibly can, and then from that point, just continue to scale the right people behind us. Right. To help kind of financially back it and continue to move it forward. And would love to continue to see that. So, obviously, from here would go, you're looking. We're looking at Fort Wayne. We're looking at the region in northwest Indiana and Chicago. We've got some connections up there and then kind of work our way up north. That's our goal. So I can share that much with you. [00:34:49] Speaker B: So are we heading to Canada? [00:34:50] Speaker A: A, you know, interesting enough because it's. [00:34:52] Speaker B: A big country for pickleball. [00:34:55] Speaker A: It's so funny. I had a guy, one of my dear friends reached out to me, goes, hey, I was up in Canada. One of my fraternity brothers lives in Canada. He wants to talk to you. So I'm like, okay. So we talked, and he's very interested in it. And he goes, it's just nothing like anything like you're talking about here. I go, well, in all actuality, there's not anything like I'm talking about here other than courts. And outside of that, that's basically what we have. So. So, yeah, that's what we're thinking. But we are. We're gonna walk before we run, which is, I'm an ADHD kind of guy. Isn't always. [00:35:32] Speaker B: That's gonna be hard for you. Yeah. [00:35:34] Speaker A: You know, but. But we gotta just be really, like, in the last six months, I've learned our pricing models change four different times. [00:35:41] Speaker B: Wow. [00:35:41] Speaker A: Okay. In my mind, right. And I'm going through, and I'm talking to people like yourself, and I'm talking to people that don't play. We've got a very simple model now. We've got three pricing tiers. We got 510 $15 drop in fees, depending on timing. [00:35:54] Speaker B: So 03:00 a.m. is $5. [00:35:55] Speaker A: $5. [00:35:56] Speaker B: 05:00 p.m. is $15. You got that kind of. [00:35:58] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly. You know that. You know the time frames, right now, what's nice, if you want to reserve those same courts at any time, you've got that group of people you want to play with. We let you schedule court time a year in advance. [00:36:10] Speaker B: Oh, goodness. So most places, just so people are listening know, most places are one week and again, maybe two weeks. [00:36:16] Speaker A: And the reason we can do that is because we're not a membership driven. [00:36:20] Speaker B: Organization and because you have an elasticity model. [00:36:22] Speaker A: Yeah, you got it. And that's exactly how it works. So our goal is to get you to reserve those courts, but those. That court time is 15, 30, 45. So dollar 15 for a court, dollar 30 for a court or $45 for a court. [00:36:34] Speaker B: Again, same timing. [00:36:35] Speaker A: Yep. [00:36:36] Speaker B: Share it with your friends. [00:36:37] Speaker A: You got it. And the drop in is 2 hours. Okay. So you get to play for 2 hours with those 510 $15. So I think that's a simple model to understand and to follow. And. And if you're new, you come into town, you go into our lobby, you download the app, you can drop right in right then and there and start playing. Right. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Clarification. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Yep. [00:36:56] Speaker B: $5 drop in fee. That's a player fee, we call it. [00:37:00] Speaker A: I'm saying drop in for this audience. We're calling it flex play. [00:37:02] Speaker B: But it's per player. [00:37:03] Speaker A: Per player. Correct. [00:37:04] Speaker B: But the $15, is that per court? [00:37:06] Speaker A: Per court, correct. [00:37:06] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's actually cheaper to book your court. [00:37:08] Speaker A: It is. [00:37:09] Speaker B: You hear that, everybody? You heard it here first. Save money, book your court. [00:37:14] Speaker A: It is. It is. And it'll be really interesting, Kevin, to see what. What people gravitate towards, right? Yes. And I think those newer players are going to just pay that fee. Right. [00:37:26] Speaker B: They have their group. [00:37:27] Speaker A: You got it. [00:37:27] Speaker B: That community will form fast, though. [00:37:29] Speaker A: You got it. That's in. What we're trying to do is create a platform, essentially. Right. But also within that platform there, create that culture, and that has to be created from the community, not from ownership. Right. [00:37:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:47] Speaker A: Like, so it'll be really interesting to see how all that. That plays out. No pun intended. [00:37:52] Speaker C: I'm so excited. [00:37:53] Speaker B: Can I hit you with a few rapid fire questions? [00:37:56] Speaker A: As long as it's not asking me about, you know, my favorite shot, like an expert. [00:38:03] Speaker B: Kevin, I think these are all. You'll be. You'll be fine on all of these. There's only one trick question here. It's not much of a trick. [00:38:10] Speaker A: Let's do it. [00:38:10] Speaker B: It's only three or four here. Okay. Will there be vending at your location? [00:38:13] Speaker A: Yes. [00:38:13] Speaker B: So will there be a cafe at your location? I mean, I'm just gonna keep going. Will it be a cafe at the location? [00:38:17] Speaker A: Nope. [00:38:18] Speaker B: Okay. So vending will have food and or. [00:38:20] Speaker A: Drink that will have drinks. And our vending will also have pickleballs and gear. We bought retail vending machines that have our conveyor belts. So we. We are selling shirts, pickleballs, paddles, and then we also, again, we have free paddles for everybody to use. [00:38:37] Speaker B: So the problem with a fun guy like this is rapid fire. You just want to go. Never mind. Let me hear more. Never mind. All right, next question. Will there be lessons available? [00:38:45] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:38:46] Speaker B: Private and or group? [00:38:47] Speaker A: Both. [00:38:48] Speaker B: Okay. When are you going to announce the next location? [00:38:53] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:38:55] Speaker C: That's fair. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Do you think it's 2025 or earlier. [00:38:59] Speaker A: Oh, we would announce the next guest. Yes. In 2025. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. [00:39:03] Speaker B: Steak or burger? [00:39:04] Speaker A: Oh, steak. [00:39:05] Speaker B: Okay. [00:39:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:06] Speaker B: That's my rapid fire question. Here's what we all want to know, though. [00:39:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:39:10] Speaker B: When officials opening December 26. [00:39:13] Speaker A: We have a date the day after Christmas. That's official from the contractors. [00:39:17] Speaker B: Christmas is coming early and that week, a day late. [00:39:20] Speaker A: Well, within that week, between Christmas and New Year's, it's $5 drop ins. So, yeah, you can play for $5 all you want to play as much as you want to play. We want to get as many people in the system and we want to learn as much as we can and get that feedback immediately. So please come by, cancel my flight. [00:39:37] Speaker B: Sorry, sister. I know we were going to come there for Christmas. We're not coming to Colorado after all. [00:39:42] Speaker C: We're definitely going to be there. [00:39:43] Speaker A: Awesome. We want to have you there. In fact, I will. You will be invited. We're doing a vip party prior to. And I want to make sure. [00:39:51] Speaker B: Hold on. That's the next question I have. How can I get on the course early to play? [00:39:55] Speaker A: That's how you'll do it. You will be part of that list, I assure you. [00:39:59] Speaker B: That's awesome. [00:40:00] Speaker A: And you get a sneak peek of the facility, the tech, all that good stuff. I will say we're dropping the app on November 1, I think it is. And that will allow people to download the app to reserve that time between Christmas and New Year's. And also any of those activities is what we're calling it. [00:40:20] Speaker B: Stinking smart. [00:40:21] Speaker C: I'm setting a reminder right now. [00:40:22] Speaker B: I have great ideas, John, but I think we could go for hours and I cannot do that to our listeners. All three of them. All three of them know that we're only a half an hour long podcast and I'm probably at that mark already. [00:40:32] Speaker A: Fantastic. [00:40:33] Speaker B: I don't care how long this one is, we're gonna. We're gonna let it go because this was a great conversation. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Thank you. Likewise. [00:40:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Can't thank you enough. [00:40:40] Speaker A: I love being here and I appreciate the opportunity to share our story, what we're doing, and hopefully get that pickleball community excited about what we're doing. And, you know, just, just, hey, you know, our goal is to make this available for everyone. And, you know, we're certainly open to feedback to get us to that goal, so. [00:40:57] Speaker B: All right. Well, on behalf of sky the one take wonder, I'm Kevin Huff. We're here with John Hurley and we're ahead of the game. He's ahead of the game for sure. Tell your friends and tell him you're ahead of the game as well. I'm ahead now. [00:41:21] Speaker A: I'm ahead of the game. I'm ahead of the game.