Digging Deep for all the Dirt about Building Pickleball Courts!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: So that we don't sound like complete buffoons, but, you know, we'll see what happens when it comes out. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Good. Good luck with that. [00:00:07] Speaker A: All right, sky, we're back in the studio. We have another special guest today. [00:00:11] Speaker C: So exciting. [00:00:12] Speaker A: I know. It really is. And this is something that you and I have wanted to do. [00:00:17] Speaker C: I would say mostly you. You keep looking at property that. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Allow this to happen. [00:00:23] Speaker C: Yep. [00:00:24] Speaker A: When it's not much of a secret. What we're going to talk about here, we're going to talk about building pickleball courts. Not necessarily only in your own backyard, but maybe just in general. Pickleball courts. We've got what? Well, let me start with my experience, okay. I've traveled all over the United States. I've played in multiple countries. You know that. So I'm clearly an expert on pickleball courts, of course. But I got online and found out I had a difference of opinion from our actual expert, who we have on here today. And he truly is ahead of the game. I'm ahead of the game. So on Facebook, our guest, Brent Paas, he's pretty well known. He chimes in frequently on, you know, on group chats and on, you know, like in the kitchen and in other forums that are out there. Pickleball forum, etcetera, just with his thoughts and professional expert opinions on courts and what we're hearing and seeing. And so, Brent, I'm going to bring you in quickly here, but I want to say one more thing about you. I've really learned a lot from you. We've had multiple conversations. I'm super grateful for that. And I know that we're going to continue to have a difference of opinion on tiles, and you're going to change my mind today. That's what I think may happen. [00:01:34] Speaker B: I may not change your opinion, but I may just give you a little different side of it, that's all. [00:01:38] Speaker A: Okay, well, that's fair. So, ladies and gentlemen, Brent paas. And Brent's out of Texas. Brent, why don't you give us some quick background, sort of how we would qualify you as an expert in court building? [00:01:51] Speaker B: Okay. Well, I don't know if anybody ever becomes an expert in court building. I do know that you learn with your experiences, especially over time. So this year will be my 20th year in building courts, and many of which are backyard courts. Actually, long before most of the folks that we know and see every day had even heard of Pickleball. So being a court builder means much more than being a court builder that builds pickleball courts. It just happens to be the thing that we do the most of currently. [00:02:21] Speaker A: So, yeah, I hope that continues to be the thing you do the most of because doc on it. Let's keep growing. Pickleball. I'm going to comment on that backyard thing because you have a Facebook group called is it backyard pickleball court owners or something like that? [00:02:34] Speaker B: It is, yes. [00:02:35] Speaker A: And you change the COVID picture all the time. So what triggers that? [00:02:41] Speaker B: Okay, so first off, I actually didn't start that group. It started by a lady who just wanted to have a little bit of a place to go to to talk about backyard courts. And I participated a little bit here and there, then got off because I was really busy and just decided not to. Then, then when I came back and joined, she asked me if I would kind of take over the site. It became too much for her. Oh, wow. I think it was. I think she started with like twelve people and now we're at 11,300, I think. [00:03:09] Speaker A: Wow. [00:03:10] Speaker B: And so, you know, I am the, and I guess I, now I'm the site owner slash moderator. And every single person that joins I have to approve because we're trying to keep it to be, you know, a respectable site and respectful and bots and all those things that, all the t shirt giveaways and all the junk that gets on, I try to keep all that deleted. So it's all good content and curated and so it's not my site, but I've become very like, protective of it. And absolutely there are different opinions from others, especially in other parts of the country. And I do want to be sensitive to that because, you know, everybody has their things that they do a little bit differently. But there are some, some kind of universal truths. There's some, some construction truths. There's, there's a lot of things that really aren't debatable but aren't necessarily what everybody thinks is the correct thing to do. So I try to give opinions and, and honestly, I give information as much as I possibly can on there and I don't even advertise my own business on the site, whereas others will actually advertise theirs. I'm trying to keep it not to be like that, you know? And so some folks don't even realize that I'm the president of the company that I work for, you know. [00:04:21] Speaker A: So, yeah, actually it's one of the things I really respected about you was that you were, I mean, I just call it neutral. You know, you were somewhat Switzerland when it came to your position as who you are versus this is just what makes the most sense. Because of the way things work, because of the industry, because of the equipment, because of the chemicals, because of whatever. And like I said, that attracted me to you and. But you just mentioned something that I resonate strongly with most of our listeners probably won't. I hope some of them do. I also run a Facebook group. It's 9000 members. So right around the same size you. You got me by a few k there. But dude, it is a lot of work. I mean, it's a lot of work. Yeah. So the one I have is seeking pickleball attorney partners and I can't tell you. I mean, I probably delete four times as many bots as actually allow people in. And I think I took over at around two or 3000. So I've deleted whatever that is. 36,000 or. No, that's 16,000, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So that's great background. I'm gonna go back to the question. What is it that specifically triggers you to change the COVID photo? Was it a new court you guys do or. [00:05:31] Speaker B: Okay, great question. I kept it the same for a long time. Got kind of static. I think it was the actual picture that the original page owner had. And then there's another moderator on there. He's in California, I believe. Oh, Rick's going to be mad if I got that wrong, but I do most of the moderating. But he said, hey, why don't we change the picture every so often? I thought, you know what? The people that put their pictures from their courts on the site or a picture that they'd like, I'm going to just at my discretion, choose which ones I put on there every now and again. It happens to be a court that I built from one of my clients that actually hosted it or is on the site. But I don't just, I mean, I could routinely change it to one of our courts like literally every, every day. But I just, I just choose whatever they put on there. [00:06:17] Speaker A: And you have one in your backyard, right? [00:06:20] Speaker B: I have a couple, yeah. [00:06:22] Speaker A: You know why I'm asking? Because in November I'm going to be down there. [00:06:25] Speaker B: He's inviting up. [00:06:28] Speaker A: I am. I know. We already talked about it. My wife doesn't know. We've already talked about it. I'm not completely hooking myself. Brent was aware. Yeah. We'll be there the first week in November. We're coming down to Dallas for nationals, but we'll be in Austin while really new Bronfels right there by San Antonio. [00:06:42] Speaker B: Before I am about 20 minutes from new Braunfels. And if you do not come, I am going to be offended. [00:06:48] Speaker A: It's a deal. My business partner just had his, and I quote, spec tennis court built in his backyard because he will not say the word pickleball. He's a wimp, but we will play pickleball on it. And he already knows that. He just hates to say that. So. Yeah. Okay. I put together one or two sort of fun get to know Brent questions. I happen to love music, so I often ask our guests music questions. So I'm going to start with. You have a favorite genre? [00:07:18] Speaker B: Man, I'm pretty eclectic when it comes to music, but I would have to say that especially in my, my older years, that is eighties still a genre? [00:07:31] Speaker A: Oh, it's my genre, baby. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Eighties music. I can never go wrong with eighties music. [00:07:37] Speaker A: It really just has staying power. [00:07:41] Speaker B: It does. [00:07:42] Speaker A: Eighties music has staying power. My kids love eighties music. They didn't used to, but now they do. [00:07:46] Speaker C: So some of it. [00:07:48] Speaker A: You have a favorite artist? [00:07:50] Speaker B: Anybody listening to this that knew me back in the day will know that guns n roses, it's kind of embarrassing how, how big of a guns n roses fan that I was. I'm not saying that I don't like them now. Sure I do. But. But it was, it was beyond obsessiveness at that point. And I still do like them. But as far as eighties music, there's so many, so many good artists that I enjoy. [00:08:12] Speaker A: So GnR is not a bad choice. I mean, they were pretty, pretty happening in the day were. When it comes on today, I want to rock to it. So there you go. [00:08:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:08:22] Speaker A: It's funny because when I was younger, like some of the, what I hear today, like a Metallica song or some of the heavier, heavier metal stuff. Back then, I was like, nah, not for me. But today I'm like, let's go. Yeah. But I mean, I think maybe because of, maybe because of Marvel and all their movies with Iron man that made all the AC DC music seem fun again, but cool again. [00:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it really does. Okay. Two great answers. Sky, you know, I always make you ask that answer the same questions. So, favorite music? Genre. [00:08:54] Speaker C: I feel like I already answered this in a previous podcast. [00:08:58] Speaker A: I didn't ask this question. [00:09:00] Speaker C: Genre. [00:09:02] Speaker A: Country. [00:09:04] Speaker C: That's a new. That's a new favorite. Yeah. I would stick with Christian most of the time. [00:09:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. And favorite artist? [00:09:10] Speaker C: Ooh, this will be good. Country for king and country for king and country. [00:09:17] Speaker A: I think that's what they're called. [00:09:18] Speaker C: Yep. Okay. Right now yeah. [00:09:21] Speaker A: All right. [00:09:21] Speaker C: Had lots. Over the years. [00:09:23] Speaker A: I could just as easily say, like Enya, I have a very eclectic list as well. Brent. I actually have a Spotify station called the only country I can stand, and there's about eight songs on there, so I could even say country, but I'll. [00:09:37] Speaker C: Secretly add one here and there. [00:09:38] Speaker A: Yeah, there's not a lot on there, but outside of that. Okay, that's a great answer, or several great answers. Thank you. What got you into this industry? [00:09:46] Speaker B: Well, it's a little bit of a unique story. I'll just kind of summarize it. I actually went to school for communication slash journalism, believe it or not. Yeah. I was a communications major, and instead of actually going into that field, I went into the family business. My family owned a trucking company, and I actually was there for a decade, and it was fine. I enjoyed working with the family, but it was an industry I just did not feel fulfilled at whatsoever. And. But actually, as a trucking company owner, I had a court built for me, and it was by the sport court dealer of San Antonio at the time. And so, yeah, and we'll get into that a little bit on this four court. [00:10:36] Speaker A: Those are swear words over here, but we'll. We're gonna change our mind, I'm sure. Keep going. [00:10:39] Speaker B: No, no, no. I will just talk about the differences and all that, but. So I actually got to know the gentleman that built my court really well during that time, decided to move on from the family business after ten years and said, you know, what am I going to do? I got a degree in one field. I got ten years of experience in another. What is it that I enjoy? What do I want to do? And I really love sports. Played tennis in high school, played tennis in college, was just always around sports, and got to know that gentleman really well when he was building my court. I said, hey, you ever need help, I'd love to help you out if you need it. He goes, man, I'm really getting busy. I'd love to have some help. Six months later, he still hadn't called me, and I was still kind of searching for what to do. So I called his office, and his wife was working in his office with him, and I had, you know, said, hey, what's, what's. How's things going? I never, I never heard from him. His name was Rick. I never heard from Rick. What happened? Oh, Rick was building a court down in the valley of Texas about six months ago and had a heart attack. Passed away in someone's backyard. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I felt so little because I thought he just kind of blew me off. And I come to find out it was literally, I think, a week after I'd spoken with him. All that to be said, all of a sudden, the sport court dealership of San Antonio was kind of, I guess you would kind of say open but available. You know, it's. Yeah. And so it was a very difficult situation to come into because I had totally wanted to learn it and work with him. And he was only 51 years old. I mean, it was. It was just terrible. And such a wonderful guy. Every one of his clients, including me, really felt the world of him. So I just kind of fell into it that way and started doing courts, you know, kind of as the person taken over for what he had done and just kind of evolved from there and just continued on. And so, you know, almost 20 years later now, I've been doing it a lot longer than anything else, so. [00:12:47] Speaker A: Wow, you had a court built, but you didn't specify pickleball. Was it a tennis court? [00:12:53] Speaker B: Okay. So, you know, at that time, and especially in this area, so the term sport court wasn't just what the product is. It literally was a sport court. It was a size wise, it actually was not far from what a pickleball court size would be. Half court basketball. You know, you do the multi use stuff. At that time, we would do short court tennis lines. We would do, there's some pickleball lines on different courts, but it had to be by request. Nobody knew what it was, especially in south Texas, you know, 20 years ago. And so, yeah, it was. It was a smaller court that we would do a lot of. My brother and I would play a lot of short court tennis on it and have matches on it like that. [00:13:32] Speaker A: So super fun. Okay, let's. Let's fast forward. Where. Where did you or how did you. [00:13:42] Speaker B: Get into pickleball, as far as being a player? I actually had not played pickleball until about maybe time kind of flies, so sometimes they get off maybe three or four years ago. But I had known about it, and I had been building courts for folks that had pickleball or were dedicated pickleball courts, actually, long before I played, which was. Which was kind of funny. But, you know, I was prided myself on the tennis courts that I built. Having been a tennis player, basketball courts, having played a lot of basketball, you know, just really knowing the ins and outs. And I did know about pickleball, but I certainly wasn't a part of the pickleball culture. Like I am now. But I I did have an interest in it. I just was at that time, was. Was moved on from tennis, was heavily into racquetball. I was a racquetball guy. And so. So now that I'm playing pickleball and I used to play racquetball, I need to play some paddle. That's a different conversation. [00:14:41] Speaker A: Yes. Paddle 100% on board with that. Same here. Yeah. Paddle paddell. I think paddle sounds better. [00:14:47] Speaker B: I thought it was paddle from the fact that it's from, you know, South America and then. Yeah. And I think maybe paddle is paddle. The paddle is part of it. In the north of us calls it paddle, but I think paddle sounds better. [00:15:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I do, too. So I also have a racquetball background, played competitively, played tennis also in high school, college, and so, I mean, same kind of path. And, man, when I jumped on the pickleball court for the first time, my wife took me up to a top floor of a cruise ship and was like, let's try this out. And instantly was like, this is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I was before COVID though. You sound like you were a Covid joiner. Do you have a Covid story that put you into pickleball, or is that. Do you think it had something to do with it? [00:15:29] Speaker B: Well, I will say this. During the COVID time, especially here in south Texas, the court business really, really picked up, like, significantly because people are like, okay, what can I do? I can go outside so I can build a court. And so I clearly remember being, you know, past that initial stoppage of everything. Once we got past that, like, wow, people are really wanting to do something outside, and. And so I didn't. I don't know if I had been playing before. That probably was right around that time. But I've gotten to where I play, you know, consistently now, and it means a lot more to me now, and. But it's grown a lot, as you well know, in the last, you know, three or four years. I mean, not just the. The number of players and people wanting courts, but just the entire infrastructure of it has changed dramatically. And so it's just been rapidly changing, and staying up with it is difficult, you know? [00:16:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, maybe one more question before we get to some geeky stuff. And this might be a little bit like asking you if you have a favorite child, so please take this with a grain of salt. Have you built a favorite court, man? [00:16:40] Speaker B: You know, there's a lot of courts that I like, but one thing that is consistent is I'm always building the court to what the client wants. Okay. And that doesn't mean that it can be exactly what I want. And so one of the hardest questions. And maybe we'll get to this, but people always say, particularly the. No offense, the wives, they say, what color do you like? And it is so subjective. Now, it's true that there are some colors that absolutely contrast better with balls and visibility and so on and all that. And that's true. But a lot of times they're talking about from an aesthetic standpoint, because it's their backyard. [00:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:16] Speaker B: And so when they ask me that question, I just cautiously say what I like, and it doesn't mean it's what they like. And so, you know, the court that we built in my backyard, the second one, which is more pickleball specific, as opposed to the first one, which is more of a. Was more of a multi use court, I kind of did the things that I really wanted to do on a court, and so it kind of is my favorite one because it's exactly how I wanted it. Size, colors, lights. [00:17:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:45] Speaker B: Speakers, which every time I play, I put on an eighties music. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:51] Speaker B: A playlist that I put together is called the pickleball playlist or something. I don't know. [00:17:56] Speaker A: Is that on Spotify? [00:17:58] Speaker B: I should share it, shouldn't I? [00:17:59] Speaker A: Yes. Good brother up. Throw it out on Facebook. Let's see how many people want to hear that one. [00:18:03] Speaker B: I'm very selfish. I should do that. Yes. I just know I didn't. [00:18:07] Speaker A: So, yeah, we got a pickleball playlist. It's like, hit me with your best shot and songs like that that all, you know, had to do with pickleball. [00:18:14] Speaker B: That one is an eighties when they overplayed, so I keep that one off my wrist. [00:18:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. But it fits on the pickleball court when you're trying to hit somebody, so. [00:18:22] Speaker B: It does. [00:18:23] Speaker A: I'm known for trying to do. [00:18:24] Speaker B: Yep. [00:18:25] Speaker A: Okay, let's. Let's get to courts. Sky, I don't know how much you know about courts and court types, but I know this. You've worked at a tennis court facility? Tennis facility, yep. They had two main court types there. They had. Let's see. One was. No, actually. Yeah. [00:18:43] Speaker C: Well, one outdoor. [00:18:44] Speaker A: So one is a tennis court service. [00:18:46] Speaker C: Yep. [00:18:46] Speaker A: And it was cement, not asphalt. But those are the two main types of tennis court services that we see. Or pickleball court services. But you also had a flex court. Yep. Which is kind of that poured urethane, rubbery, not too bad on the joints, but doesn't bounce. Right. You know? All right. But then there's also sky and brent. You need to just start chiming in anytime. But there's also, like, these tiles, and then there's, I think, a thousand other things in between. I've played on carpet, I've played on wood, I've played on gym for. [00:19:14] Speaker C: I'm not sure if it's the same. [00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah, those are the ones that I always poo poo because I've played basketball on them, slipped and fall and hurt myself because any little, any amount of moisture on it makes them very slippery. Those are the ones that have the holes in them. [00:19:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:27] Speaker A: They also, when I play pickleball on them, they bounce. The balls bounce crooked because they hit those holes off or they hit the seams or the whatever. Yeah. And I don't think Brent's here to promote those, but sport court in particular does have a pickleball court. Right, Brent? [00:19:40] Speaker B: Well, so let me, let me give you a little bit of background on kind of the surfaces, the subsurfaces and all that. So think about this. Concrete and asphalt are subsurfaces, okay? They're not athletic surfaces. You can certainly play pickleball in straight asphalt or straight concrete, but it's not a surface. That's the solid surface that you want to. That's a solid subsurface that you want to put a surface on. Okay? [00:20:05] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:05] Speaker B: So, so when it comes to an athletic surface, for all intents and purposes, for our discussion here, for outdoor courts, acrylic and modular, or hands down, the two most common surfaces for a backyard court, okay? So the acrylic is the painted surface that you call a tennis court surface, okay? And it's not straight paint, but it's, it's very much like a paint. And then you have the modular, like you talked about, company sport court snapsports. Those are the two industry leaders in the modular field. Okay? So here's the one of the things that we're going to talk about, because we discussed this earlier, is the, the disdain, the hatred, the dislike of tiles. When it comes to pickleball courts, it is huge. [00:20:50] Speaker A: Just so our listeners know, if you go onto Facebook and some, somebody goes, hey, I'm thinking about putting in sport quart tiles, what's going to happen is about 9000 of us are going to say, do not do it. It's the worst thing ever. And Brent's going to go, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's have a real legitimate conversation about it. Go ahead, Brent. Let's have that conversation. [00:21:05] Speaker B: So here's the things that I want to talk about when it comes to that. So, for one thing, it is true that a plastic modular tile on top of a subsurface is going to have some issues with a plastic pickleball if you don't have some specific details. Okay. And let me, let me say this. The tiles of old, that sport cord and snap sports, you know, the ones that are the kind of industry leaders, those tiles of old were never designed particularly for a plastic pickleball or wiffle ball, as we used to call it, you know, a pickleball. They were designed for the cushion, for the give, for the drainage, for the aesthetics, for the safety, all that stuff. And believe it or not, people, when they fall on them and they get a little scraped, they come to realize that if you fall on anything hard, you're going to get an injury, and tile oftentimes will really cushion. So. So a lot of the, the arguments that people have is they are basing it on a tile that was not designed for pickleball and or a subsurface that wasn't done well. And let me explain. So if you have a very uneven old asphalt or concrete surface, some people mistakenly think that you can just lay tile down and it's going to be just a perfect court, it'll look really cool, but it will not play well at all for something like pickleball because the tile's not touching the surface underneath the little legs. And so any imperfections are going to amplify that issue. And so you're going to have dead spots, all that stuff. So they're saying, oh, no. And also, let me say, people say sport court, they use that generically. And anything that's titled is a sport court. And there's manufacturers, there's chinese stuff, there's really low quality americana stuff that's really low end. And I know it's easy to say that, but trust me when I say in the tile world, there's some really, really low end stuff and there's some good stuff. [00:22:51] Speaker A: Okay, well, it's like saying pickle roll also because pickle rolls. [00:22:54] Speaker B: That's right. [00:22:54] Speaker A: One type, but there's multiple out there. [00:22:56] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. [00:22:58] Speaker A: Okay, so. [00:22:59] Speaker B: And also because of the popularity of pickleball, there have been tiles that have been redesigned to better perform for pickleball. Okay? So all I want to do to tell people is that if you're going to play on tile and, you know, judge it, that's fine. But make sure one, you know what you're playing on you know, what the subsurface and how well it's built and if it's got, you know, debris and other things that over time need to be cleaned out. And also if it's a pickleball specific tile, because those are softer tiles, they have a grit to them so that the ball is, doesn't skip as much because on modular tile, you're going to get a faster play. And I kind of liken it a little bit, too, when you play tennis on regular acrylic and then you play tennis on clay or even grass for that matter, even though we don't play on grass much here in America, but, you know, obviously in England and Wimbledon they do. So the ball's very fast in tennis on, on grass and it's very slow on clay and then about medium on acrylic. So with, with tile, you get some similarities to that. You get a pickleball skipping kind of quickly when it comes to pickleball, but on acrylic, it slows down. And so you have a different feel. You've got to have to, you kind of have to play on both to feel that difference. And I totally understand that. There's also some bounce issues, and certainly the softer tile helps to bounce and make it bounce a little closer to acrylic. It is never going to replicate acrylic. Never. It just can't. It's just not possible because it's composition for, you know, many rec players, they love the fact that it's softer and it feels good on their bodies and they don't have to resurface it and all that. [00:24:33] Speaker A: So that part, yeah. If I go to bed at night, I've been playing on hard concrete for the day. I mean, you know, acrylic, but hard concrete for the day. I know, but if I go home and I've been playing on, like, some kind of flex softer indoor court, I mean, I can feel the difference in my knees so. [00:24:50] Speaker B: Totally. And actually, there is an acrylic cushion that you can do. You can do a cushioned acrylic that will give you some of that softness. But, but here's, here's the trick, okay? So when you do cushioned acrylic, you've got to be careful how much cushion you provide because, yes, it may feel wonderful, but if the pickleball bounce is not what it needs to be and if it's modified in some way to where it's lower, then, then it's not going to be a good surface for people, especially at the higher levels. They want it to perform consistently. So this is kind of where the acrylic, the cushion acrylic comes in. You know, tennis cushion has been around for a long time. Tennis balls will bounce quite well on multiple surfaces, just like we talked about with clay and grass. But, but when it comes to the cushion, if you put that much cushion and then you bounce a pickleball, it's going to just die. And so you've got to be really careful how much cushion you put in your acrylic so it doesn't affect play. So all that to be said, I'm not trying to by any means convince, especially the high level players that they're going to love tile. I'm not saying that. I just want it to be understood, the differences and why some people have had those experiences and why they may not really understand exactly what they're dealing with. If a, I will say this. If you do a really well done subsurface, let's just say concrete, and you put the pickleball tile that's specific for pickleball on it installed well, and then you use balls that are a little more, like, for example, like the onyx fuse, it's a ball that's a little bit more than what people play when they play on wood floors, indoor gyms. You know, there's some talk about how people don't like that. So when you use those balls, it actually bounces quite well. And people think, yeah, this is really, this is pretty cool. But, but I will say that I prefer acrylic, big time. Prefer acrylic when it comes to playing hard, you know, intense pickleball. And so it's just, it's not for everybody, but it's not for, no, not that. It's not for nobody, you know, and so it's just, it's just describing those differences and, you know, pros and cons with anything. And, you know, acrylic is definitely going to be the surface that most people, when they play consistently or playing tournaments, are going to be playing on. [00:26:54] Speaker A: All right, for, for acrylic, is this a fair statement? If you don't use concrete, it's your own asphalt. [00:27:06] Speaker B: In Texas, it is. Now, I will say other parts of the country with different soils and different climates, that asphalt, how do I say this? Certainly it can work. It absolutely can work, and it can work well. It is true, though, that concrete, and particularly post tension concrete, going to give you the longest subsurface without or with less maintenance and perhaps maybe no maintenance when it comes to the subsurface of any of the, you know, things that you can do for a court. Other parts of the country just don't do it like we do in Texas. The Sports Builders association has all kinds of documentation and classes on post tension because basically, I'll just give you the short version of what post tension does. Post tension helps mitigate the cracking that is pretty much inevitable when it comes to concrete. So rather than just straight rebar that's going to make it stronger. You're going to have post tension cables, steel cables that are in the slab that are what's called stressed after a certain amount of time. And what it does is it allows the concrete to kind of crack while it cures, but then it squeezes it together under compression. That's why it's called post tension. And the whole idea is then when you surface, those very small hairline cracks, which are going to happen, won't even show through and won't have any bearing. Yeah, there'll be no big deal at all. And so it also helps with certain, you know, certain flexible soils and different climates that you can do a post tension slab and get better results than you can with a regular rebar or an asphalt slab. But, yeah, we don't do any asphalt. Most, I don't think anybody in Texas does asphalt anymore because it just doesn't last. That's the problem. [00:28:48] Speaker A: All right, post tension. So I, by the way, I'm firm believer, been working with multiple clubs and other entities, cities, et cetera, that are looking at, you know, putting in courts. And of course, there seemed, for the most part, although we've had some places with, with reclaimed asphalt surfaces, the post tension, and this is my own perspective, I'm sure I'm not completely right here, but it seems like it's like three times as expensive as quote unquote, regular concrete. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Okay. So I don't want to speak for others, either in the business or I, those that sub out their concrete, but let me just say that there are some areas of the country that I do know are significantly more expensive when it comes to post tension. And I think there's a couple reasons for that. One is just the uncomfortable nature that they have with it, because they haven't been doing it much, especially when it comes to courts. Also, when it comes to the engineering side of it, you don't have to over engineer post tension cord slab because remember, we're just trying to mitigate the effects of cracks and we're trying to just get a surface or subsurface that you can surface and not constantly have to maintain. It doesn't have to hold up a building. It's not going to, you know, not going to park an rv on it. It's not, though. There's some structural nature to it. It doesn't have to be over engineered. You kind of keep it simple. That's another thing is that people tend to think, well, if it's going to be post tension, it's going to have to be really engineered and really intricate and detailed. And it doesn't have to be. It just has to be done a certain way that works in court construction. And certainly there is pad preparation with different soils. That's important as well. But post tension can help with a lot of that if you're trying to keep it to a minimum. Another thing is we do post tension in house, and that makes a big difference. Some people are literally just going to a concrete company and getting them to give them a post tension quote under whatever specs that they give them, and then they just basically mark it up and that's what they do. But we, we don't, we kind of do it ourselves and we know how to do it and we do it fairly. So our post tension is not much at all more than traditional rebar. [00:31:04] Speaker A: That's great to hear. We're going to have to fly you out to Indiana. We have a huge market here ready for you, buddy. [00:31:10] Speaker B: And also, I do believe there's a little bit of the, there's so much business out there for certain people in certain areas where it's growing that folks can't necessarily handle it. So they're pricing things like the market tends to do, and we just, we don't do that. We like, we get the same numbers that the numbers are only very based upon the size of the court, what particular things they want on it. But it doesn't change by how much work we have or what area we're in or any of that stuff. And so there's just, and also, let me also say with that site, there's a, there is a right way to do certain things and there are opinions on other things. But when folks try to argue some of the basic tenets of why we do post tension or why we do certain things that we do and they don't have the experience in the field, it becomes difficult for me not to speak back on that site and others because this is from experience. The one thing that we do particularly like with post tension is that we don't want people to constantly have to be maintaining and dealing with issues on a court. We want them to have the best chance to have the longest life and least maintenance so that they can enjoy it for years to come. And I know that sometimes that's not in the budget. And I don't want people to think that if you can't do it post tension, you're not. That you should never do it. That's not the case. But why would I say anything less than what is the. The top and the ideal? And then you kind of go from there. So it certainly can be done. It just, you know, parking lots weren't necessarily meant to be quartz. They usually have the wrong slope and others. But. But it isn't impossible. [00:32:40] Speaker A: Well, let me ask this question then. So I'm picturing my house. We had wood laminate. Is that what we had put in on our house? Yeah. [00:32:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:48] Speaker A: So we had wood laminate put in a few years back. Of course, they come in with this surface leveler. Right? So they pour that gray stuff, whatever it is, on your floor, and it takes your existing floor and it makes it level again. Is there such a thing as, as a leveler for a cement or asphalt for people that would. [00:33:04] Speaker B: So here's how it works in our business, is that the slope, the drainage is really important in the existing pad. Okay. You do a very specific slope so the water gets off. Having low spots or having improper drainage is very, very difficult to mitigate when you're surfacing because you can only put a certain amount of patch material on. Here's an example. If you, if you have a technique, an old court that has a bunch of what we call bird bass, low spots where water is sitting, that might be a, that might be a Texas statement. There's lots. So bird baths are low spots where water is sitting. If you float those, if you don't have good drainage on the court, if you float those, you're just going to be pushing that water from one part to the other part. And so that is one thing that we actually come across often is whether it's new or old, not pouring or building the subsurface properly and not having the slope done well is the number one way to shorten the life of your court, because water's not draining off. Yeah. So all that to be said, there are a lot of, and this is what's happening a lot lately, is that there's all kinds of products in the flooring industry that people have used for leveling, but when it comes to athletic acrylics and when it comes to adhesion and delamination, which means the paint peeling up there are a lot of things that are not conducive to the surface. And so when you try that stuff, all you do is end up creating a giant mess. And this is why it's not an easy, it's really not easy if you think with the popularity, people, everybody on the corner would be doing surfacing. But, but, you know, the proper acrylic preparation and surfacing is very, very much an art as much as it is a science. And you really have to know what you're doing. You know, our crews, they do so much surfacing, and they've got so much experience that they make it look easy. And you can watch YouTube videos of people that make it look easy. [00:34:55] Speaker A: Like, you know, the guys who lines. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Are actually easy compared to, but they. [00:35:01] Speaker A: Make it look a lot easier than I'm sure it really is. [00:35:03] Speaker B: Well, that's true. It's, you know, the, getting it all lined out and taped out is difficult, but, you know, people, a lot of people don't realize that acrylic is applied with a large squeegee. It's not. You don't put it with a roller or you don't spray. [00:35:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Those guys are fun to watch. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it is. It's amazing how talented they are. But there are some specifics about the mixtures, and, and so it's a very detailed process, and you get what you pay for. You can see examples all over good surfacing jobs and poor ones. And there's a lot of reasons why. [00:35:32] Speaker A: Well, I'm good at making a mess, so. Yeah, I think you've helped talk me out of a few messes I probably would have made if I didn't talk. [00:35:36] Speaker C: To you first, say thank you in advance. [00:35:38] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:35:40] Speaker A: Anybody that's. Anybody that's hiring you to build, like, just what we would call either a singles or skinny court or a kitchen court. [00:35:47] Speaker B: It's very, very rare, because the only time they do that is if they have no space. You know, that's us. Yeah. If you have no space and it's very tight, then yes. And you can do a skinny singles. Sometimes we do courts that we can't fit the entire court, but we make sure that the, that the kitchen is proper. We just built a court on the 33rd floor downtown Dallas of an apartment. It's a really cool view. The problem is the building itself, which is in the room in the middle of the building, is not large enough for an entire court. So we made sure the kitchens are correct and so they can do all the practicing there. And then just kind of had to shorten the rest of it, just sort of fit in there. But, but to your point, most people that build a court, you know, they have the space to do one. And certainly if you have less space, you can make a smaller version and practice for sure. Yeah. [00:36:36] Speaker A: I have just enough room to make a kitchen court in my backyard. So, you know, maybe, you know, four or 5ft behind the kitchen line, so there's room to kind of move and step back and step forward and. But that's all I have. I do think on the side yard we have room for a full skinny court. Not a full court, but a full skinny court. [00:36:51] Speaker C: So we'd have to take out my. [00:36:53] Speaker A: Garden, but, yeah, yeah, I think that's doable. [00:36:57] Speaker B: But between those two, you could have enough practice to play matches, you know? [00:37:01] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Sounds like I'm getting sold on doing both of them. [00:37:05] Speaker C: This guy, you know, that means you take care of the backyard. Sure, honey. [00:37:10] Speaker A: If the backyard is all cement, I'm good to go. We'll just call for some rain. That'll take care of it. [00:37:16] Speaker C: He'll be like all of his leaf blowers out there. [00:37:18] Speaker A: All right, any questions that I should have asked you about courts or anything that you want to tell us about courts that we have not gotten to yet? [00:37:23] Speaker B: Well, there's obviously lots that can be discussed, but I think the one thing I like to emphasize to people is that, you know, you get, you do get what you pay for. Okay. There are a rash of folks, whether it be, and I'm not slamming any particular trade, but pool builders and landscapers and garage epoxy guys. And with the popularity of pickleball, the influx of those folks all of a sudden becoming quote unquote, court builders is pretty amazing. And mark my words, I'm going to tell you right now, in the next several years, there's going to be a rash of completely poorly built or, and, or surface courts that are going to have to be fixed. We see it all the time. We see it even now on a daily basis of what's to come. And so just do research on folks and how long they've been in the business and what it is that they actually do as a corps. I always say when, when we're in backyards, you know, if you want a pool, that's awesome. I'm going to help you out to find a pool builder. When you want a deck, we're going to get you a deck builder. Why are they trying to build a court? Because they don't know, and I know it seems silly that it's just simple. It's very simple. It's simple if you want it to be not high quality. If you want it to be well done, long lasting, and look and play well, then there are some details that people like me and others have been in the court building business exclusively for a long time. And that's all that we do. So we really specialize in it. It is a niche business. And that is the part of the problem where people think, oh, it's really not that big of a deal. I can either do it myself or just hire my poor guy to go ahead and do that. And, you know, I think that's where people find the biggest errors when they're doing the court, is where they think just anybody that's in contracting can do it. I often say there are people in construction and there are people in court building, and it's not the same. And I'm not saying that people in construction can't learn to do this. Absolutely they can. But what they're going to do is they're going to make a lot of mistakes, because that's what happens to. And a lot of us did. We learned as we, as we went on and got better and better. And most folks that have been in it for a while, they can tell you they were, they're far better port builders today than they were 510, 715 years ago. And so learning from your mistakes is really important. And, you know, it's funny, the popularity of pickleball is interesting. It obviously has created a lot more potential business for those of us in court building. It's also created a lot more fly by night folks. A lot of people doing it themselves, a lot of people that think that it's just a simple deal and it doesn't end up being that way. And it gets frustrating at times. [00:39:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I am sure. So it's gonna be like tattoo removal in a few more years. We're gonna need companies that are out there doing bad pickleball install removal, and then new pickleball court install. [00:40:09] Speaker C: Very weird comparison. [00:40:10] Speaker A: Like that analogy, I was thinking the. [00:40:12] Speaker C: Surface of a pickleball core is more like, you know, a fine pastry. If you don't get that just right. Batter consistency just right. [00:40:19] Speaker A: You know what a fine pastry has? It has beautiful white icing on top of it. Note that reminds me of the lines on a pickleball court. And so that's my next question. Great segue. Sky Brent, why in the heck do the white lines or the whatever color lines you have. Why the ball skip on those more than they do on the other paint? [00:40:36] Speaker B: Because the paint, for one, is different. It is different. Like, paint is a little different. It also, you have textured lime paint, which gives it a texture, but it is not the same as the sand that goes into the final coats. [00:40:49] Speaker A: Is this some. Is this some great mystery, the universe that can't be solved? Like what I really like. Why? [00:40:54] Speaker B: No, not at all. You just have to be very careful. Okay, let me back up. Tennis, for example, and remember pickleball courts, acrylic pickleball courts are miniature tennis courts. Okay? They are. They are the same. Now, tennis balls are very, very different to pickleballs, okay? [00:41:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:12] Speaker B: So when it comes to the skidding, especially with the harder balls, like the duras and the Franklins, you know, the harder, smoother balls. So when it comes to the line skippiness, it is just, you've got to put in more sand, and you've got to put in the right sand, mix it in with your line paint to give it some texture. And a lot of folks just aren't used to doing that in the business. [00:41:29] Speaker A: Because it wasn't necessary when it came mattering tennis. [00:41:31] Speaker B: No, it didn't. You may get some skip skipping off the lines and tennis a little bit, but it wasn't enough to make a difference. And a lot of times with tennis, it actually helped you to know if it was on the line or if it was out, you know? Um, there's some of that, but when. [00:41:44] Speaker A: It helps us know in pickleball, too, but it's just hard to get to. [00:41:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it's true. Now, if you have. If. Now some guys don't even use textured line paint, which means it's a completely slipped paint to begin with. [00:41:54] Speaker A: That's what we see a lot of. [00:41:55] Speaker B: And, yeah, so textured line paint is one, and then putting some sand within your textured line paint so that it actually is closely mimicking the bounce of the eclipse, that's really important. [00:42:05] Speaker A: So, you guys, you've got it figured out pretty well. [00:42:07] Speaker B: Yeah, well, we do. So we've done stuff for, like, MLP events and for, you know, the nationals and Brookhaven. We built all those courts out there, and we get people that are pros playing on our courts all the time, and we're, you know, we're trying to do the best we can for everybody. And if the players that are playing on at a high level don't like the skipping, it's going to be beneficial to everyone if we get it. The best that we can. And so, so, yes, there are folks that definitely have a different feel on what the lines feel like to them, and they need them to be a little bit more consistent with the rest of the play, and so you just have to be careful with it. [00:42:44] Speaker A: Well, we have not yet talked about one more court surface I think we should address really quickly, which is pickle roll, because that's where a lot of these other negative comments come up. And I know that the sub flooring thing has a lot to do with it. Here in Westfield, Indiana, we had the collegiate tournament last year in January. I think it'll be again this year in January. It was an app tour thing. I love Ken Herman and that whole team, but candidly, they had a soccer field that they put wood on top of that. They put quartz on top of that. They rolled out and there was just dead spots. [00:43:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So let me talk a little bit about that. So also, with the popularity pickleball, there's become a need for these more sort of, shall I say, pop up type of venues. [00:43:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:24] Speaker B: So when you have a convention center where you have a huge area and you can have an amazing tournament, how can you get a surface that is closely mimicking acrylic on the indoors without it obviously being surfaced and being permanent? Because you're just temporarily there. So the rolled products have come out, and so there's two different things to discuss. You're right about when you put a, you build a deck or some kind of a subfloor, like in wood, you're inherently building something that's going to have give to it. And then you're back to the issue with what tile can happen. You have give the tile, it's going to deaden the bounce. You're going to feel pretty cool, just like when you plan a basketball court, that giving it feels good, but it's a, it's a dead condition for the pickleballs. Same thing happens with the rolled surface, because a rolled surface is only as good as what's beneath it. [00:44:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:44:10] Speaker B: It hasn't had a solid surface. Now, a lot of convention centers there, they may have, you know, huge, smooth concrete, but. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Polish concrete. Yeah, yeah. [00:44:20] Speaker B: But a lot of times they have a lot of imperfections. They have got a lot either outlet covers, outlets. They've got concrete is kind of rough finished. They've got things sticking up or even. [00:44:29] Speaker A: A little piece of trash that you didn't get blown off or swept off the court. [00:44:32] Speaker B: You'd be amazed at how much the tiniest little piece can affect the bounce, because what it does is it creates a void and that void is extended. And then a pickleball, we all know that if it hits that void, it's literally going to just hit and roll and not bounce. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:47] Speaker B: So you do have a challenge there when it comes to putting something existing. And by the way, you probably saw those rolls. Even though they're thin, they're extremely heavy. And they also have to be, they have to be seen together. Whether a roll or even on squares. [00:45:01] Speaker A: They are monstrously heavy. I installed with my, with a team of people, I was a part of 22 pickle roll courts in Miami, Florida. And it was work. It was hard work. [00:45:14] Speaker B: It is. And you, that's the thing. You do all that hard work in some of the conditions that you can't even control or what makes or breaks the situation. And so this is also a product of the pitfall ball itself. You know, if this were. That's why the modular has worked so well for, like, pop up basketball and, you know, other sports that you have a ball that really bounces well. USA volleyball plays on a modular tile. The Olympics had the outdoor basketball that was on. That was modular tile, actually. And so there are sports that it works really well on, but the nature of that ball being so hard without any kind of give to it is really what changes the dynamic here. And so we are believers in offering whatever it is that works well for our clients. But there are some things that folks have to understand. If people go, oh, yeah, you can put this rolled product out and you're going to have an instant court, no problem. That's not being truthful. There's more to that. [00:46:10] Speaker A: Holy. I will say that we had some fantastic courts that were made in and we did not use pickle roll. So I don't want to promote that brand unintentionally. We used the other big one that's. [00:46:23] Speaker B: Out there, used Pickleball united. [00:46:26] Speaker A: Yes. Thank you. Pickleball united. And they were great. I mean, really, honestly, when you had the court cleaned off well and you had a smooth surface, I mean, it felt like I was playing pickleball. I played in that tournament. I played singles and I played men's doubles, and I didn't feel like I was being cheated in any way, shape or form. And I would have complained if I didn't like it. I like to have a game where it's on a good court. I mean, I'm not saying fair, and that's all that, you know, hits and then rolls. That's not fun. [00:46:51] Speaker B: Yes. Well, that's a great point, is that, you know, we're talking about being really, really particular because can people go out on that and have fun? Absolutely. [00:46:59] Speaker A: Yes, definitely. [00:47:00] Speaker B: When you're talking about a tournament where you need consistency and where a big point can have a really bad balance and you need that consistency. And so as core builders, we understand all that and we know that it's not always going to be ideal, but sometimes it's the best you can get if you don't have the other choice. [00:47:18] Speaker A: All right. I think maybe we've. I'm not sure. We obviously haven't exhausted this topic, but we've kind of hit, kind of hit on all those things that people are probably curious about today. I think one thing that people are curious about, which, if I were you, I wouldn't answer, but what's going to cost me for a backyard court? All right. Ten to a hundred thousand. Right. Just depends on what you're going to do. So. [00:47:36] Speaker B: Well, it's very, it's very regionally based, obviously, because costs are different from one area another. And also, what folks don't realize is that 30 by 60 concrete pad with surface and a net is a cork. Okay. So is a 34 by 64 with fencing on all four sides and lighting. And, you know, so there's a cushion. [00:47:57] Speaker A: Surface and so there's always tension cushion. [00:47:59] Speaker B: Exactly. I will say it's no secret because we, every time somebody does an inquiry on our website, we tell them if, if all things are equal, meaning you have a pretty accessible, relatively level spot. It doesn't have to be perfectly level, but relatively level, we can build a really, really nice pickleball court from 35 to 75 grand and just kind of use that as a, as a range. And we've absolutely built ones in that lower range all day. And the higher range is kind of like cushioned and the lights and everything, all the bells and whistles, speakers on everything. And so there's just a range. And that's just how it is for us. And other people may be different, but, you know, we don't look to what other people do. We do the best that we can the way we do it. [00:48:38] Speaker A: Let me ask you, like, maybe three or four quick, rapid fire questions, just some quick responses from you, and then we'll call it good after that. [00:48:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:48:45] Speaker A: Are there economies of scale instead of building one court, but building four courts together? [00:48:49] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. You can definitely get it less per court by doing things at once. For sure. [00:48:54] Speaker A: All right, super. How much? Well, that wouldn't be a very fair question. I shouldn't go there. What's your favorite ball? [00:49:03] Speaker B: I'm a gearbox guy. I have a gearbox paddle and I use gearbox ball and. [00:49:07] Speaker A: I'm sorry, I think we just got disconnected. Let me see if I can find you here. Something's wrong. [00:49:13] Speaker B: You told me to tell the truth. [00:49:14] Speaker A: I feel like he said gearbox there. Family. I don't know what he meant by that. [00:49:18] Speaker C: I haven't even heard of that. [00:49:19] Speaker A: That's okay. Well, that's because your husband hates gearbox. I don't really hate them now. I just hate when it first came out, like tiles. I hate them when they first came out now. I don't think they're that bad anymore. I honestly don't. [00:49:30] Speaker C: Okay, keep going. [00:49:31] Speaker B: Okay, go on. Yes. [00:49:32] Speaker A: Yeah, no, the newer ones are, like, pop up. Pop up? Like, actually, once you break them in, they really hit the ball really well. All right, next question. So much for rapid fire. I was gonna ask you your paddle next. So I think I got that, too. [00:49:42] Speaker B: What? [00:49:42] Speaker A: Which gearbox do you use? [00:49:44] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Not the newest one that came out. The one that came out right before that. The pro. The elongated. The power. [00:49:52] Speaker A: It's after. That's after like g seven or whatever, right? [00:49:54] Speaker B: Oh, it's way after that. [00:49:56] Speaker A: This is five g sixty seven. [00:49:57] Speaker B: Yeah. This the. So it's the second to newest version. I'm a little. I'm a little behind, so. [00:50:02] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. The new one has like a power and a. Something else, I think, and a control. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are pretty poppy and. And quite fun. They sort of feel like the gen three, which is an unfair term for everybody, but they kind of feel like gen three pedals to me, but that makes them fun. All right, favorite shot to hit in pickleball, your favorite shot to hit. [00:50:21] Speaker B: You know, I think the ATP is my favorite, even though I try it more often than I should. [00:50:28] Speaker A: Because the. [00:50:30] Speaker B: Angle is not there and I know it's not, but I'm like, what the heck? I'm going to try it. [00:50:33] Speaker A: I'm sure you can bend it around that post. You know, I mean, like, not the Ernie. [00:50:38] Speaker B: I'm going to tell you from my tennis background and from my racquetball background, the Ernie is an incredibly awkward and uncomfortable movement to me. I just don't think to do that. ATP is second nature for me because I used to do that in tennis. Doubles. [00:50:52] Speaker A: All swing it is. [00:50:54] Speaker B: And actually going around the pole in doubles in tennis isn't that uncommon. And I used to do it a lot, but the Ernie just feels weird to me. And I just never can't get myself in the right position. I'm too focused on trying to not be a tennis player playing pickleball and pickleball. Yeah. [00:51:12] Speaker A: In racquetball, tennis, you don't like, jump at an angle diagonally to try and hit a ball. [00:51:16] Speaker B: You don't. And you don't set yourself up that way. I'm so focused on not popping the ball up that I don't end up moving that way. And the only time they happen is when it's just a complete situation where it's obviously, you gotta have to because the ball is over there. I'm not setting them up very well, but. [00:51:33] Speaker A: Okay, last question for you, nasty Nelson. Fan or hate it? [00:51:39] Speaker B: Wait, is there a word bigger than fan? [00:51:41] Speaker A: Because if I got. [00:51:44] Speaker B: If I could hit lover, yes. If I could do it every shot, I think I do it every shot. Okay. And I would laugh every time about it because then it's not gonna hurt, you know? [00:51:54] Speaker A: So you and Scott golden and me, that's three of us already, for sure. I love the nasty Nelson. I. That's how I show my affection for somebody once I like them on a court. I try to nasty Nelson them. [00:52:03] Speaker C: That's true. [00:52:05] Speaker B: I try to bait, bait people into it on like, I'll try to get real close the line to try to, you know, towards me, and then I'll try to do the same thing. [00:52:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:52:12] Speaker B: No, I'm a fan of it. Absolutely. [00:52:14] Speaker A: Have a sort of unwritten, ongoing bet with Scott golden that I will nasty Nelson him before he ever. Nasty Nelson's me. Of course, we'll have to actually play together on the court to see if that happens, but, yeah. Okay, cool, man. You have been a wonderful guest. We are so grateful for you coming on. [00:52:30] Speaker C: Thank you so much. [00:52:32] Speaker A: We get asked a lot of questions about courts. Well, sky works for pickle place. That's one of the top questions that they get is we're getting a lot. [00:52:38] Speaker C: Of questions about core. It's crazy construction in different regions. Yep. [00:52:43] Speaker B: Well, and I encourage you guys and a lot of folks actually on the forum, don't just ask me questions on there, but I'll get a whole lot of private messages and a whole lot of people all over the country that are actually asking me things that they want to know about you guys. Feel free to please do the same. [00:52:58] Speaker A: Hey, shameless. Shameless plug. Tax free, no cost. What's the name of your company? [00:53:04] Speaker B: Okay, so Cortex construction business company. And we are based out of Austin. We have a Dallas Fort Worth location. And we cover San Antonio, Austin, Dallas, kind of, you know, the central part of Texas, sometimes a little bit of Houston, but we cover pretty good areas. As you know, Texas is pretty big, so. [00:53:26] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so for you listening folks that are trying to catch that and write it down as court texts, but it's one taide. So it's like core to Texas, but one t in the middle. Core tex? [00:53:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Cortex. That's right. [00:53:37] Speaker A: Cortex. Awesome, man. Brent, can't thank you enough, really. If we get any great questions, we'll flip them your way as well. [00:53:44] Speaker C: Thank you so much for coming. We appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us. It's very helpful to the whole community. [00:53:51] Speaker B: I don't know how that wasn't boring to you, but I'm glad. [00:53:54] Speaker A: Oh, no, not at all. I geek out on that stuff. I have a hundred more questions I want to ask, but I'm going to just. Just call it good and go out. So you ready, sky? We're out of here. [00:54:01] Speaker C: Yep. [00:54:01] Speaker A: Thank you guys, for listening. Remember, we're ahead of the game, man. So are.